In response to my posting about Honor-Shame culture and a Boston Globe editorial, Lawrence Barnes, regular commentator and skeptic about the value of the “honor-shame abstraction” posted a long and critical comment. Here is my response. [LB in block quotes, me in italics.]
I confess to confusion. It begins with my skepticism regarding the utility of the honor-shame abstraction (detailed elsewhere on this site), and continues with my embarrassing failure to grasp the point Mr. Forbes is making.
It seems to me as if perhaps Mr. F. refers to the mass murder policy of Nazi Germany; if so — and of course I could be wrong here — he seems to suggest that some overwhelming humiliation lies behind the death camps. Let me follow that possibility for a moment.
Was Germany humiliated by the Jews, homosexuals, career criminals, Gypsies and Poles? (Those were most of the main targets of Nazi rage.) Or was the humiliation the product of the treaty that ended WWI and imposed absurd penalties on Germany, and did the Germans then punish the Jews and other groups for the punitive peace?
That all seems pretty far-fetched to me. The Nazi rage was directed mainly at France, Britain and the USA, and there was some rational basis for it. After all, when the war ended, not a single enemy soldier stood on German soil. That precipitated the myth of the “Dolchstoss.” Whom to blame? Yes, the nations that defeated the German military and dictated the unjust peace, certainly; and later, the Nazi regime gave expression to the prejudices of much of the German populace.
I think part of the condition of experiencing helpless rage involves the search for scapegoats. As William of Baskerville puts it in Umberto Eco’s The Name of the Rose: “When your true enemies are strong you have to pick weaker enemies.” And when your humiliation comes from a sense of impotence, you need to attack those who can’t/won’t strike back.
Nor do people in such a condition admit it to themselves. As we all know, for Hitler, the Nazis, and many Germans, the Jews were behind the “stab in the back.” We are dealing here with perceptions and compensatory mechanisms, not “reality” as some dispassionate historian might see it. The same is true for the Muslims. On the one hand the Jews are all powerful, on the other, only American support — LBJ parachuted tanks into Sinai in 1967 — could make Israeli victories possible.
But does that explanation mesh with the “humiliation causes mass murder” hypothesis? Suppose instead we simply note that Germany, inexperienced with democracy, fell into the hands of the worst Germans, who advanced their personal, confused, deviant, sadistic agenda.
“simply note…” is strange language. All peoples at the beginning of that experiment in equality before the law that democracy consists of (eg, the opening lines of Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address), are inexperienced. Not too many, and certainly not as late as the early 20th century in Europe, fell into the hands of a “confused, deviant, sadistic” leadership “simply” from “inexperience.” On the contrary, in order for Hitler and the Nazis to win, they had to play on a wide range of paranoid and sadistic fantasies whose exploration would bring us back to an analysis of the psychological dimensions of humiliation and rage. Any biography of Hitler has to deal with the psychological dimensions of his personality and its exceptionally powerful impact on the public. It’s not, should we study his psychological condition… it’s how well or badly do we do that inevitable task?
Further, how good are the parallels with the current mess in the Middle East?
I’d say not only close, but, if anything, the dynamics are still more acute. The humiliation of the Arabs at the hands of the puny, previously subject (dhimmi), and humiliated Jews, was far greater than that of the Germans at the hands of great and traditionally powerful enemies like France, England and Russia. Furthermore, the “strong enemies,” the primary source of Palestinian/Arab suffering is, I think, the Arab elites, who sacrifice the Palestinians to their strategies for attacking Israel, and more broadly oppress their masses as part of their prime divider notion of social order.
As Samuels says in his essay on Arafat, when Arafat and his band showed up in the West Bank and Gaza as a result of Olso, they looted the place and treated the Palestinians as occupied people. To attack these folks, who do not hesitate to use staggering violence against civilians, is asking for a whole lot more trouble than to attack the Israelis, no matter how powerful they are in their capabilities.
And in the grand picture, both the Nazis and the Jihadis have global millennial ambitions to rule the world, embrace paranoid fantasies about the Jews, as in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and see the “right order” of the world as the subjection of all others to their dominion.
It seems to me that fitting the facts into the theory takes some huge effort. In that sense, I am reminded of the Marxist approach to history — a fable fleshed out with misinterpreted data. It’s the imposition of a fanciful interpretation on events, and it’s not valid or accurate.
Well, if the choice is between your “simple” explanation above and the lengthy and complex discussion of the psychological dimensions of honor-shame-humiliation-scape-goating, I prefer the latter. Among other things it gives us factors to look for that are transferable to other phenomena, like the Arab dilemma. One of the most fascinating questions, which rational analysis just can’t explain, is the permanent appeal of the Protocols, no matter how false and destructive they prove to be.
In the current case, it seems to me that the ideas posted here depend on the claimed insights of psychology. Example: the concept that humiliation can cause hurt which causes anger that is generalized and seeks blameless victims. That’s very pat, very neat, very trendy and very suspect as a way of understanding history.
Surely you don’t want to argue that scape-goating is not a verifiable
historical phenomenon, however trendy and often misdirected the effort. Take a look at the burning of Jews and lepers in medieval Europe for poisoning wells at the time of the Black Death. If anything, scape-goating may well be one of the most common phenomena in the history of violence, and the fundamental force behind conspiratorial thinking.
As for the “reality” of humiliation as an emotional factor in the lives of people — especially men — see the description from Tom Wolf I posted a while back. Granted it’s “literature” not science, immeasurable and unquantifiable, but are you going to tell me that such things are not important to those who experience/repress them, that they do not play a role in men’s behavior either to avoid further such experiences or to avenge/eliminate the shame?
Psychology is a new discipline, not yet a science, and it is at war with itself; I don’t rate it as helpful in explaining human events such as wars, because it can only come up with facile “Just So” stories. It’s the Monday morning quarterback who always knows why his team lost, but can’t make a buck betting on the next game.
I’ll grant you your first point: Psychology is not a science (and never will be, despite it’s physics envy). But your second, I’m not sure I can agree with. Give me an example of a “Just So” story that psychology offers. I think it’s indispensible in explaining a phenomenon that I know we both are paying a great deal of attention to: self-destructive behavior. I don’t know how else to explain European behavior right now. Anything that does not pay attention to psychological factors fails to explain the deeply irrational (if rational is that which is to the advantage of the person exercising the rationality) behavior of the Europeans.
As for Monday-morning quaterbacking… I agree more or less but I’m not sure what that means. Few, if any, can consistently be correct in predicting the future when human behavior is concerned. We have to explain looking backwards. Give me an example of a more accurate way of predicting the future. Can you tell us when the Europeans will finally and decisively wake up to the danger of Eurabia (when the book by that name is still not published in the original French in which it was written)?
I don’t mean to offend or attempt a refutation. I think I’m so confused that I almost despair of understanding the contentions here. Maybe I should be enrolled in Prof. Landes’s class (though I don’t think he would like my paper!). Then too, I may be on target when I suggest that ultimately much of the thinking here depends on the quasi-scientific jargon of psychology (if so, big mistake, IMHO). Eh? Help, please.
I don’t take offense easily. I like challenges, so don’t hesitate to disagree.
As for quasi-scientific jargon, heaven forbid! I don’t think that the study of humans can ever be scientific, and the psychological and cultural approaches I take are exegetical, not scientific. There is no hard and fast answer to anything when dealing with the infinite complexities of the human soul and cultural phenomena.
Maybe you should be enrolled in my class. I’ll post the syllabus for the first part (general readings on honor-shame culture) soon. And as for your paper, I prefer one that’s in disagreement but well researched and well-argued to one that parrots me back. I think you’d do fine.