Is it Pallywood?: Thoughts on the Footage from the Gaza Beach

A Role for Pallywood?

Some responded to the footage from Gaza by asking themselves, “Is this Pallywood?” One colleague said she did not see the tape first, but her husband, who’s not working on these issues, commented, “Boy this looks faked.” Numerous people have contacted both Second Draft and the Augean Stables noting the familiar elements. And my first view of the evidence certainly gave me that impression. Subsequent comments raise further ones.

And of course, if this is Pallywood, it’s something we need to be able to spot fairly quickly, and explore in detail. Indeed, I would argue that any media outlet (especially big ones like BBC, CNN, AP, AFP, Reuters) should have a procedure for reviewing all footage from the Middle East (and other places, perhaps) for evidence of staging. The Palestinians surely have earned a sufficient reputation that the expression “according to Palestinian sources” should inspire immediate suspicion.

So at this still early date (for considered opinion) and unfortunately late date (for having an impact on how the story gets told), let’s consider the data most ready to hand, ask further questions, and explore some hypotheses, even develop some working hypotheses.

It is obviously difficult to analyze material from another culture. Their mourning customs, father-daughter relations, family dynamics may not be the same as ours, and moments of immense shock and tragedy like this can either bring out universal responses or sharply divergeant ones. And from there to considering the shocking possibility that the event may either be entirely or significantly staged, that the behavior is meant to simulate what one might do at such a time, explores terrain that is virtually taboo. Such an exercise creates serious levels of cognitive dissonance as one shifts back and forth between seeing the behavior as “real” or “fake,” running the risk of violating someone’s genuine grief and mourning, of becoming unbearably callous.

That said, spotting Pallywood footage is one of the most important tasks that stand before our media if we are to “see” the world with any semblance of accuracy. Given the massive damage that misreading Pallywood has already wrought on our sorry and possibly now-chastened world, it’s not something we can ignore. So what follows is a first run at analysis, trying to remain open to alternative readings, but nonetheless exploring likely avenues of speculation.

First, note that the situation here differs in one major way from the al Durah case. There, the greatest likelihood is that Muhammad al Durah (as well as the ambulance driver) were not even shot in the footage that we see (he moving in last scene, there are no shots of a dead ambulance driver), and that Pallywood was the beginning and end of the footage that we saw. Here we seem to be dealing with a genuine tragedy — real people killed by real explosions — in which the blame must at all costs be fixed on the Israelis. Pallywood here, if it is involved, would play the dual role of arousing immense compassion and distress for the victims, and thereby diverting attention from the perpetrators, a magicians sleight of hand. Pictures of children suffering and grief stricken fill the air, arousing at once compassion and indignation, and forbidding the terrible thought — at least among cognitive egocentrists in the West — of self-inflicted wounds. Who, what group, would inflict those kinds of wounds upon one’s own people?

On the other hand, a feature unites both the al Durah and the Ghalia families. Their tragedy came at a most important time. In both cases, the Palestinian leadership was on the defensive world-wide (Arafat for his Camp-David no, Hamas for their unwillingness to even mouth conciliatory formulas in English), they were under direct pressure to do something (in this case by Abbas’ referendum which struck horror in the hearts of good Jihadis everywhere), but especially of Hamas, and on the eve of a visit by the Israelis to Europe where this incident would deeply embarrass them (for Barak it was the October 4th humiliation at the hands of Chirac; here it was Olmert “under a cloud“).

Finally, the most important similarity that emerged in the aftermath of both the al Durah and Ghalia family tragedies is that, whatever actually happened, the greatest likelihood (by far) seems to be that the Israelis did not cause the damage in question.

Major Anomalies

  • There is no evidence of a blast, no crater, not even a disturbance of the sand which has the characteristic patterns of wind-wrought waviness uninterrupted either by a blast or cleaning up from the blast.
  • The bodies are evacuated from an area where various items one would have expected to have been blown away by an explosion — flip-flops, beach chairs, clothing — are strewn around.
  • Very little blood is visible anywhere. The child’s body is dark and may be charred, but there are no other signs of burning on the material on either side of him. The disposition of bodies does not seem to accord with an explosion. Perhaps they are in a secondary arrangement, ready for loading on the ambulances.

Analysis of Houda Ghalia footage

The iconic footage from this incident concerns Houda Ghalia, whose family was wiped out in the attack.

Houda’s image rapidly became a new icon in both the Palestinian/Arabic press and acknowledged by the Western media.

BEIT LAHIYA, Gaza Strip, June 11 — Huda Ghaliya, the sixth-grade student whose horrified screams on Friday as she knelt by her dead family on a Gaza beach were televised around the world, has quickly become an icon of the Palestinian struggle against Israeli might.

houda on beach

This image of Huda hovering over the bloody bodies of 13 dead or wounded members of her family was televised around the world.

Eleven-year-old Huda unwittingly became a symbol of Palestinian pain and loss during an afternoon picnic with her family on a hot day when a cameraman captured her shrieking “Father, Father, Father!” as she hovered over the bloody bodies of 13 dead or wounded members of her family, hit by what was apparently an errant Israeli artillery shell.

Note, in the space of a few sentences, several assertions by the Times not necessarily warranted by the material.

  • She is not hovering.
  • It is not over the thirteen members of her family but near her father.
  • It is not clear this footage was unwitting in its aim to create symbols.
  • It is not clear that her grief symbolizes the stuggle against Israeli might so much as Hamas madness.

This footage, as affecting as it might be, leaves a most bizarre impression. As a number of commenters at this site have noted, there are strange anomalies. First, it appears that we are dealing with more than one camera angle; hence more than one cameraman, possibly three. So far no one that I know of, has identified the cameramen. This of course raises questions about how rapidly they got to the beach. One scenario — the event was planned — suggests that they were there from the beginning. Another — that it was accidental — suggests that they came upon hearing the explosion(s) or news of the deaths. In the latter case, it raises the question of whether some of the action was staged once the cameras arrived. It would be nice to have a chronology of arrivals: in what order do we get Hamas operatives looking for something, journalists and cameramen, ambulances, PA police?

Houna’s behavior is also strange, although who can judge how someone reacts under the shock and horror of seeing her family killed before her eyes. The wildness of her grief seems entirely understandable and deeply touching. But the footage from PATV (now available at PMW), shows her standing around (possibly in shock, but not agitated) as the bodies are evacuated. As soon as the last one is evacuated, she turns around and rushes, distraught away from the scene, towards some sand dunes where a body lies, already “tended to” since the bottom part of his body is covered with a blanket. The cameramen accompany her, so she cannot be unaware of their presence, and we get pictures of the dead father (no signs of blood or injury) lying on the sand with his right hand pointing over his head. She throws herself on the sand several yards away and shrieks her sorrow.

The father himself shows no signs of injury, and it’s not clear how he got so far away from the rest of his family. In the first two shots of him, his right hand is raised behind his head. But in the last scene visible on PATV’s footage, his hand has moved and his face seems to be turned more towards his left. Staging? Possibly. Certainly one must engage in elaborate explanations to sustain a “realistic” narrative — he was killed by the shock wave not direct shrapnel, he walked away from the family seeking help (even though all the bodies are evacuated in the other direction), he collapsed subsequently. Where did the blanket come from? How did his arm move? What does Houda know about her father’s condition?

Given her wild grief, one would presume she had just been told he was dead. But Houda tells us he was still alive: ““I saw him breathe, but he could not hang on and died,” she said, even though no footage shows her looking closely at her father. (This kind of heart-rending testimony is also characteristic of Jamal al Durah describing how his boy spoke to him, when the footage shows no interaction between the two once Muhammad was “hit.”) Again, it seems cruel to question her sincerity, especially since her family is dead before her eyes, and we cannot possibly know what she felt about her father.

We do know that she has models in her culture of extravagant mourning (it’s a profession), and we cannot know whether or not her grief — real as it must have been — was not exploited by a media eager for footage for the world audience. Imagine, if you will, a cameraman saying to her, “Your grief is needed by your people to strike the conscience of the world. You must do this for the cameras.”

woman and cameras

The striking shift from standing around to wailing before she knows what’s happening, (and while her father is still alive) seems strange, as is her throwing herself into the sand about five meters away from the body and shrieking, rather than going to her father to see how he was… especially if he were alive. Indeed, she, like Jamal al Durah, never actually interact directly with the body of a stricken family member. And again like Houna’s father, his body position moves between “takes.”

Certainly, Houda’s aunt understood the value of the footage:

Huda’s aunt, Umm el-Abad, says as she holds her niece “I say to all the countries in the world, not just the Arab countries, and also to Israel and the Jews: Does this picture not affect you? Does it not bother you that an entire family has been eradicated? Can anything be done to stop this killing? I pray and beg that Huda and her family will be the last victims.”

So did those who came to “comfort” the mourners:

In the village on Sunday, in the courtyard here where the Ghaliya family held the wake, hundreds of women from across Gaza came to offer condolences. “We will seek justice for your murderers,” one woman sang, and others chanted, “We swear to God, to Muhammad, in the name of Hamas — we will seek justice in your name, oh glorious martyrs.”

That Israel is responsible is something the aunt assumes, as does the Western media, but that seems in grave doubt at this point. Can anything be done to stop this killing? Well given what you knew about Hamas’ contempt for your own children’s lives before the election, why did you elect them?

That Houda’s grief is real, doubtless.

houda at funeral

Later, in the rather gnarly embrace of Mahmoud Abbas, she seems to have recovered somewhat:

houda and abbas

Working Hypothesis: Beach Scene is Pallywood at Secondary Location

Is it possible that the evacuation scene of real bodies was staged in a different place for the sake of the cameras? Such a hypothesis might explain a great deal of the anomalies already noted, including the strange placement of the bodies and beachware.

It is certainly not beyond the reach of Palestinian cameramen and the “street.” And like so often, the quality of the performance is shoddy at best.

This picture of an evacuation of a very young child:

baby from beach

reminds me of this:

boy pallywood

We find the same combination of carrying the wounded upside down, and the lack of signs of injury on the face of the alleged wounded, who seem more concerned with the evacuation than the alleged injuriess that occasioned it. Shouldn’t this baby be crying? Or at least in shock?

And of course, this hypothesis explains why the Palestinians have refused to help with any of the investigation and may have destroyed evidence.

All in all, we have highly suspicious footage suggesting that, in order to turn a scandalous error into a PR coup (at best — who wants to think about a real Hamas conspiracy to kill their own innocents?), by blaming Israel, the footage was staged using real bodies at a different spot at the beach. As with Pallywood at Netzarim Junction, Pallywood producers don’t sweat the obvious details (at Netzarim the evacuations take place in front of the Israeli guns; here the reconstruction takes place where the original explosion(s) did not happen), because they can count on the media — Arab, Western, Israeli! — to react to the emotional drama they play out. Like magicians with a sleight of hand, they have us focus on the wrong details. And like the classic shell game, they keep winning.

Fortunately, this time, at least some Israelis responded with an awareness of past error, and have engaged in a sober and careful investigation, partly inspired by learning the lessons of Al Durah. One hopes this incident will inspire greater caution in future media coverage of events “according to Palestinian sources.”

Next: Snapping at Poisoned Red Meat: The Media Respond to the Images Offered

59 Responses to Is it Pallywood?: Thoughts on the Footage from the Gaza Beach

  1. Antidhimmi says:

    Kofi Annan quickly condemned Israel before any significant evidence was in. The NY Times reported that Israel had acceped responsibility when it had not and had explicitly stated it was investigating, and the NY Sun reported that Palestinian EMTs had tried to remove all shrapnel before sending the wounded to Israeli Hospitals and that HAMAS operatives tried to remove any evidence from the beach where the alleged artillery shell had landed. Moreover the Pals are refusing to cooperate with Israel in any invetigation. We are reminded again of the massacre that never happened in Jenin, the shooting of Al Dura that may or may not have happened but could not have been done by the Israelis, and other fakes, lies and obfuscations that emanate from the sewer that is the PLO.

  2. Solomonia says:

    A Closer Look at Gaza Beach

    Richard Landes (who’s in Jerusalem right now) is taking a very close look at the Gaza beach events with a “Pallywood” eye, here: Is it Pallywood?: Thoughts on the Footage from the Gaza Beach The media has responded like Pavlov’s…

  3. Josh Goldman says:

    What a shame that intelligent human beings should devote so much energy to finding ways to excuse the Israeli authorities for their violence. How much could be achieved if that ingenuity were invested instead in ending the occupation and working towards a proper peace in which the settlers withdraw to the pre-67 borders.

  4. r leikind says:

    Richard: It is hard to say what is going on with this drama, but this is certainly your moment to draw attentinon to the al Dura matter. Good luck. Rob

  5. Hurray For Pallywood

    Richard Landes provides analysis of the latest success of the Pallywood propaganda machine.

  6. Al Tira says:

    For what it’s worth, debkafile is reporting that Hamas is suspected of having planted a daisy-chain bomb trap on that beach to foil Israeli commandos.

    I agree with Leikind … this is an opportunity to draw attention to the facts.

  7. paganinfidel says:

    Josh Goldman.

    Self-hating Jew?

  8. Lies, Lies and more Lies

    It’s too late to repair all the damage done by the broadcast footage of the young palestinian Girl running hysterically around a Gaza beach. But it’s never too late to tell the truth about the incident. My first reaction on…

  9. Nova A says:

    If you go to Little Green Footballs, you can see the CNN and Al Jazeera filmclips of the same event. In the Al Jazeera version, you see the supposedly dead father being pulled up by others afterwards, laughing and talking without pain. Definitely staged and shame on CNN for editing the clip to give a false impression.

  10. reliapundit says:

    WOULD THE PALISTANIS REALLY DO SUCH A THING AS STAGE A FAKE BOMB SCENE?!

    Of course: those who would MURDER thier own daughters and call it “honor-killings” would do anything and lie about it; they cannot be trusted; they mustn’t be trusted.

    REPEAT: nothing they say or do or show can be trusted.

  11. RL says:

    Josh Goldman wrote:

    What a shame that intelligent human beings should devote so much energy to finding ways to excuse the Israeli authorities for their violence. How much could be achieved if that ingenuity were invested instead in ending the occupation and working towards a proper peace in which the settlers withdraw to the pre-67 borders.

    It’s one thing to work out of the PC Paradigm, it’s another to believe anything that supports your paradigm. You seem to think that it’s obvious that a) the violence (of the occupation) is Israeli, and b) that by withdrawing to 67 borders will resolve that violence. But what if you’re wrong? What if the violence (and the occupation) are largely the result of arab irredentism (get rid of israel)? What if you’re a dupe of demopaths who say “the occupation is the problem” and you think “green line” while they think “river to the sea”? will the withdrawal to 67 help? or make things worse? the lessons of gaza sure suggest the latter. do you care if you’re wrong… tragically wrong?

    as for this particular incident. you, like Daniel Rubenstein in Ha-Aretz (i’ll post on this soon) want this violence to be israel’s fault so that you can argue for further withdrawals. but what if this is a palestinian-caused tragedy? does that matter to you? does it matter that the media covered it like a bunch of pavlov dogs? do you think that maybe, just maybe, some palestinian suffering comes from their own leadership, and that using my intelligence (thank you) to address that problem is worth my time?

    or does everything become grist for your “stop the occupation” mill, to be ground into dust? why not “go with the evidence” rather than impose your political sollutions on a much more refractory reality?

  12. Karridine says:

    Richard, UPDATES include:
    1) There WAS an explosion;

    2) There WERE Jordyptian dead;

    3) Israel STOPPED firing 15 minutes BEFORE the explosion

    4) Jordyptian arms cache exploded, killing victims

    5) Jordyptians killed Jordyptians
    and
    6) Multiple SECURE videotapes record and document
    ALL the ABOVE!

    Not Pallywood before the fact, but a Pallywood-spin when they realized that Jordyptians were dead, SO they might as well TELL THE LIE and DANCE IN THE BLOOD once again!

    (Good work, here. Stay with it!)

  13. RL says:

    Reply to paganinfidel’s query of Josh Goldman:

    Self-hating Jew?

    note by RL: I’m not sure i’d jump to this conclusion. stick with masochistic omnipotence syndrome — it’s all our fault and if only we could be/do better, then we could fix anything. JG may have all kinds of very noble motives at work here, and he may be very naive. i prefer to save self-hating jew for the likes of norman finkelstein who maliciously attack israel and jews. on the other hand, don’t forget what Alain Finkielkraut pointed out… “they’re not ‘self-hating’… it’s other jews they hate.” i don’t know enough about Josh Goldman to even know whether this applies.

    there are plenty of people, filled with good will, and caring about jews and israel, who believe — mistakenly, i think — that if only we… got out of the “occupied territories” things would go well. granted when such people “want” israel to be responsible for the deaths of palestinians so they can browbeat her into submission, that’s a problem.

  14. Karridine says:

    Huda’s aunt, Umm el-Abad, says as she holds her niece “I say to all the countries in the world, not just the Arab countries, and also to Israel and the Jews: Does this picture not affect you? Does it not bother you that an entire family has been eradicated? Can anything be done to stop this killing? I pray and beg that Huda and her family will be the last victims.”

    Oh, I AM WITH YOU, Umm el-Abad! I am a Baha’i, dedicated to the Glory of God, and I too, pray and beg that ‘Huda and her family will be the last victims’ of Hamas hatred, cruelty and humiliating INCOMPETENCE!

    Help us to help YOU, Umm el-Abad, to TAKE THE WEAPONS from Hamas, and give the weapons to adults, who will destroy them to protect you!

    Let your friends and family LEARN of the Coming of the Promised One, 1260AH, Whose message of Love and Justice can transform all of the 1st, 2nd & 3rd generation Jordyptian exiles!

    Or, suck down the poisonous spew of Fatah-Hamas and other Muslim clergy; continue to let them kill your family, friends and children; hate the Jews and Baha’is for their love, their knowledge and their BEING in Israel… and ‘Taste ye, what your hands have wrought!’

  15. Israel National News has some additional Details:

    “. . . the IDF investigation showed that the explosion did not occur before 16:58. IDF Southern Command O.C. Gen. Yoav Galant said that the IDF artillery in the area stopped firing at 16:51, and that at 16:58, “the IDF’s electronic surveillance did not show any unusual activity on the beach.”
    We need more information and drone pictures.

    Shrapnel Palestinian doctors missed doesn’t match artillery metal reports that Israel Television:

    Channel Two military correspondent Ronnie Daniel broadcast tonight that Israel succeeded in finding shrapnel in the body of a wounded Palestinian who had been brought to Israel after being wounded in the Friday Gaza Beach incident. Palestinian doctors attempted to remove all shrapnel before transferring wounded to Israel but missed some.
    According to Daniel, Israel found that the composition of the metal shrapnel does not match the metal composition of Israeli artillery shells. Final analysis of the metal has not been completed.

    Somebody is hiding something!

  16. [...] those of you who want a definitive analysis of the Gaza Beach Affair, look no further then Augean Stables. Richard Landes who author [...]

  17. Jerry Gordon says:

    Richard’s analysis rings true about staged events following the accidential slaughter if a Palestinian family by Hamas weapons caches.

    An Israeli-American, Dr. Yitzhak Klein of the Israel Policy Center commented to me today; “the PM presumed that Israel caused the deaths of the hapless Palestinian family on Gaza beach without having checked with his own UDF commanders and intelligence cadres in the field: looks like apologies first, ballistics and trajectories later.”

    How dumb. And then there’s the other unfortunate tableau of the PM’s own children protesting against the IDF as “muderers.”

    But then in letters sent to NYTimes Jerusalem bureau staffers on Sunday, I noted that this is not the first time the ‘gray lady” screwed up about the facts through poor journalistic investigations.

    Last July there was a similar flawed reporting of the death of a 12 year Palestinian boy because of an alleged accidental shooting by IDF troops. I found less than two hours after the first reportings a clarifying statement from the IDF pointing towards the hapless youngster as a victim of a clan dispute. I then sent off letters to Greg Myre and the Public Editor at the “gray lady.” Greg Myre of the NYTimes amazingly responded with this explanation indicative of the low state of “the fourth estate.”

    “Mr. Gordon,

    I wanted to respond to your e-mail about the killing of the 12-year-old Palestinian boy on Wednesday in the West Bank.

    When word of this killing first broke around 11 p.m. Wednesday, I knew this case was going to be problematic. I’ve been covering the violence here for
    the past five years, and we face a recurring dilemma that is a source of great frustration. Violence often happens late at night, and is newsworthy,
    but the facts are often murky at best and can’t be fully checked until the following day.

    Around midnight Wednesday, we reached the doctor who examined the boy’s body at a hospital in Nablus. The doctor said he had heard the story that the boy was killed by Israelis, but he had no independent information. At around the same time, we also reached Shlomi Sagi, the Israeli police superintendent handling the case. He said the Israeli police had received the Palestinian version of the story and were investigating, but had no additional information.

    We noted this in the story and stressed that the initial reports were sketchy. (We also contacted the Israeli military, but they did not have any
    information.)

    Before I wrote a word, the boy’s death had been reported by Israel’s two leading television networks and the two main radio stations. Three leading
    Israeli newspapers already had stories on their web sites. All three wire services – AP, Reuters, and AFP – also had stories on the wire. Every one of these reports emphasized the Palestinian claim that Israelis were responsible.

    I am not seeking to absolve myself of responsibility for my reporting, but I wanted to note that this was the only information that was available Wednesday night, and it proved inaccurate as more solid information became available Thursday.

    As soon as we had more details on Thursday, we updated the story on the Times’ web site to note that a Palestinian had been arrested and that the
    Israeli police had found no evidence to support the Palestinian claim. This is also set to appear in the print edition on Friday.

    Sincerely,

    Greg Myre”

    To the Editor
    and Public Editor
    New York Times

    Greg Myre and the news editors of the Times have unwittingly given rise to a blood libel over the killing of a 12 year old Palestinian boy based on incorrect Reuters reports and “unidentified Palestinians.” The splash headline compounded this journalistic gaffe by citing” At a time of tension the killing of a Palestinian boy.” Both Ha’aretz in Israel and AP produced later reports that the hapless youth was killed in a clan feud and that the Palestinian perpetrators had been apprehended by authorities. The Times owes its readers an apology and Mr. Myre should file a correct follow up story, as other metro New York publications have upon discovery of the facts.

    Jerome Gordon

  18. [...] rders Children in Palestine, Blames Israel Pero la auténtica traca es este informe, [...]

  19. Karridine says:

    Jerry Gordon, don’t sweat the ‘blood libel’ here, or ‘minor, teensy, insignificant distortion’ there…

    The Jews and Baha’is, fat and ‘honest’ in their Mount Carmel/Haifa strongholds, are WRONG and will always be WRONG! If the media had waited for 10 hours, they’d have LOST their CHANCE to issue a blood libel under the guise of news.

    Come on! The NY Times gives fairly unbalanced reports of Jordyptian perfidy, and labels it ‘brave Palestinians against the Israeli might!’
    (hawwwk! *spit*)

  20. The Fly says:

    All governments use the media to promote their political agenda, the U.S government included. However, if one should analyse their media in such depth they should also analyse our own media too. They are equally full of stagings, hyperbole and sometimes even lies. The same goes for U.S government. (You’re probably thinking god another conspiracy theorist…well ask yourself this is it really so unreasonable to assume that a government sponsored primarily by business and funding the media may on occasions conspire, and may keep things secret as they wish to keep their people happy, just like Ha-mas?)

  21. [...] A mistake. Either Israel’s — or Palestine’s. Thoughts from On the Face, Augean Stables, Israellycool.
    [...]

  22. Pallywood Digest

    At least in the blogosphere, the story is getting attention. The latest? shrapnel taken from two wounded Palestinians who were evacuated to Israeli hospitals showed that the explosives were not made in Israel, IDF officials said. And here’s a brief…

  23. Sissy Willis says:

    ‘Sounds like Josh Goldman is a truthiness kind of guy: False = accurate if it supports your narrative.

  24. RL says:

    The Fly wrote:

    All governments use the media to promote their political agenda, the U.S government included.

    We’ve addressed this issue in detail IS THERE AN ISRAELI EQUIVALENT TO PALLYWOOD? Let me know what you think.

    However, if one should analyse their media in such depth one should also analyse our own media too. They are equally full of stagings, hyperbole and sometimes even lies. The same goes for U.S government.

    I think it’s very important not to engage in moral equivalence here. Sure everyone in a position to do so will try and spin the news that gets out. But there’s more and less dishonesty and if you can’t distinguish, if everyone is equally guilty then i’d say: a) what’s the sense of trying to be honest if there’s no way to be so; and b) civil society is impossible. As you say, “sometimes even lies.” That’s very different from lies as the norm.

    There is a huge difference between what Chomsky calls “manufacturing consent” and coercing consent, despite Chomsky’s efforts at moral equivalence. Try and imagine how the PA or any other Arab govt would have handled something like Hurricane Katrina — the difference btw what they would allow in anti-govt statements and our media engaged in is world’s apart. Not to see that difference is dangerously foolish.

    (You’re probably thinking god another conspiracy theorist…well ask yourself this is it really so unreasonable to assume that a government sponsored primarily by business and funding the media may on occasions conspire, and may keep things secret as they wish to keep their people happy, just like Hamas?)

    Do civic govts use their power to cover stuff up? Sure. Look at Nixon. The difference is that they get caught sometimes in civil societies with a free press; they almost never get caught in authoritarian socieites. If they don’t get caught often enough for your taste (or mine), that’s unfortunate, but no excuse to dismiss the immense moral effort to create an even imperfect “free press” — something that calls for consistency and courage on a very difficult scale — as so much nonsense.

    Do civic governments either thru gross negligence or deliberate planning murder their own citizens to distract the public and drive them to wars that will bring catastrophe upon them? Not in civil society. Is the USA already a fascist state? I don’t think so, and anyone who knows what fascism is like (unless they’re someone like Tony Judt), has to acknowledge that as bad as it might be, it ain’t anywhere near fascism.

    I’m here in Israel to give a paper on conspiracy theory, esp 9-11/Bush/Mossad stuff. The premise of these conspiracies — that Bush would allow thousands of americans to be murdered, major American sites to be destroyed, all for the sake of lagging polls and a desire to avenge his father in Iraq and bring fascism to America, strikes me as far more ludicrous than the possibility that Hamas planned and executed this tragedy in order to throw a monkey wrench in Abbas’ “moderation” and regain popularity in Europe by showing how horrible the Israelis are. (No business interests would sign off on a plan that could have such disastrous an impact on the American economy.) And yet the very people who contemplate a monstrous Bush and neo-con circle would heap accusations of racism and islamophobia on me for suggesting that Hamas did it on purpose.

    NB: I’m not saying Hamas did it on purpose. I’ll let the evidence speak. I’m talking about what we allow ourselves to even contemplate. And in some strange way, many people who start by embracing moral equivalence (we’re as bad as they are, Gitmo = Gulag, Bush = Bin Laden) end up with moral inversion (we’re worse than they are: Bush is more evil than Bin Laden, etc.). As forms of moral rhetoric (whip us into shape by shaming us), it may make some sense. When it’s picked up by demopaths who systematically exploit our self-criticism to demonize us and escape any moral responsibility, it’s suicidal.

  25. stefanie garden says:

    PA TV falsifies video of Gaza deaths
    By Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook

    Palestinian Authority TV has been repeatedly broadcasting a falsified video clip of the events surrounding the deaths of seven family members on the Gaza beach on Friday. In an attempt to blame Israel’s navy for the deaths, PA TV took unrelated video of an Israeli missile boat firing at Gaza earlier in the day and edited them into the scenes, creating the impression Israeli responsibility.

    The following is the time frame of the PA TV editing and falsification:
    00 – :32 Seconds: PATV clip introduces the scene by showing an Israeli missile boat firing on the Gaza coast. Audio of ambulance siren is added to visual to create false impression that boat was shooting at same time as ambulances were present.
    0:32 – 1:05: Scene switches directly to the victims, creating a false connection between the events.
    1:05 – 1:09: PA TV returns to the naval vessel showing sailor with binoculars looking at shore, again creating the false impression he is observing the evacuation.
    1:09 – 2:00: The evacuation scene continues ending with the word “Why” on the screen only in English, indicating a foreign target audience, possibly media.

    The video of the Israeli navy was unrelated to the deaths, having been filmed earlier in the day and had already released to the media and to the internet by the Israeli army at 4:00 PM, an hour prior to the deaths.

  26. Kesher Talk says:

    Pallywood: Getting inside the news cycle

    The Israeli government seems to have learned something from the Palestinian PR manipulations of Muhammed al-Dura and Jenin and Sharon’s walk on the Temple Mount, where lies sprinted several times around the globe before truth shuffled out of bed. Deca…

  27. kassaq says:

    “Here we seem to be dealing with a genuine tragedy — real people killed by real explosions — in which the blame must at all costs be fixed on the Israelis.”

    I’ve seen no evidence, from the Pallywood footage, that a “genuine tragedy” even occurred on this beach. Not a drop of blood on the “corpses”, stock footage of “injured” children, a little girl crying over something covered by a blanket, paramedics running around with stretchers?

    How can you say that we’re “dealing with a “genuine tragedy”? Has anyone seen and examined these “bodies” or are we taking the PA’s word for that too?

  28. RL says:

    reply to kassaq:
    there are real injured, some of whom have shown up in israeli hospitals. could they have been injured elsewhere under other circumstances (possibly like the boy in the hospital in the al durah affair)? possibly. i will admit that the thought occurred to me, but the reports from hospitals are not to be trusted.
    you have a point.
    and the fact that western media (unless it has accepted dhimmi status) cannot get into the gaza strip and interview people with real questions, means we can’t know anything and should suspect everything.

  29. kassaq says:

    RL,

    From the “picnic at the beach” sham video, I see no reason to believe that anyone was “injured” anywhere near the beach. For all Palestinian claims of severed limbs and corpses everywhere, they can’t come up with even ONE (just one) shot of a lost appendage? Not one drop of blood? Not one impact crater or even some displaced sand?

    Even the stock hospital scenes were obviously staged (unless Paletianian standards of emergency care differ appreciably from what you’d expect everywhere else on the planet).

    Has anyone examined the corpses, or have they, conveniently, already been “buried” according to Muslim tradition? Can any of the dead be accounted for? Can any of the injured who turned up in Israeli hospitals be linked to the beach scene, or even to one another?

    Frankly, I was quite disappointed with your naive assumption that a “genuine tragedy” actually occurred. Maybe it did, but I seriously doubt it. I am, however, confident that you will, eventually, get to them bottom of this cynical hoax.

    Keep up the good work. Your previous exposes of the Pallywood propanganda industry should be required viewing for everyone interested in the Palestinian conflict, all Middle East “correspondents” and, especially, the entire United Nations workforce. Maybe, some day, the sheeple in the mainstream media will actually take notice.

  30. Jasmine Smith says:

    For people living in the west, being ignorant of the facts happennin on the ground and relying totally on what your media shows you, this article and the comments do not surprise me at all…if it was israelis on that beach it wudnt have even occured to you that there could be a mini chance that it could be faked..you would have called palestinains right away “inhuman child-killing terrorists”..but unfortunately it was a palestinian child’s life that was affected, why would you care, you are sitting there comfortably typing your comments amongst your family, and after you finish you will go back to living your life..but houda and million others won’t..you viewed that clip with eyes of hatred..no matter what the media’s intentions were, what you saw were people trying to fake a tragedy…what we saw was a hysteric devastated child who just lost all her family infront of her..her case is not the first and wont be the last…houda and palestinians dont need to fake anything..they dont need to prove anything to anyone, the truth is apparent for whoever seeks it…and palestinians know no matter what happens to them, hardly anyone would care..they dont expect any support from the west and we all memorised by heart how each one reacts to each incident..what reaction from leaders did that clip gain? some condeming words that dont really mean anything to anyone? or the usual reaction from the US? or arabs?..did it draw any attention to the rate of killings out there? or the condition of people living there?..it did not and nothing will…..im sure if houda’s family was even killed infront of your door steps you wouldve said its all unture…if our hearts were of stone, they wouldve been moved…but what could we ever say, we believe you houda, we know what palestinians are going through, we are sorry we have nothing to offer other than our prayers and emotional support..may God be with you..

  31. sisu says:

    The hate that dare not speak its name

    While America slept — or rather, while it was going about its business, we wrote last year, Gramscian thinking [the origin of today's fashionable and pervasive political correctness], like sewage leaking out of a cracked drainpipe into the surroundin…

  32. Antidhimmi says:

    Forgive Jasmine Smith. Her beliefs are so strong, her perch on the moral high ground so secure (and the view is always so beautiful on the moral high ground) her vision so narrow, and her morality so unimpeachable, that she is unswayed by evidence. Surely, her goodness will win her points with the invisible vetebrate in the sky.

  33. Gaza-2006, The “Palestinian” dark pro-Murderous organizations with deceptive cute names/titles: “Human rights watch” or “peace” or “solidarity”, the overwhelming factual proof to blame only “Palestinians” & media all out dumb bias

    CNN’s Fionnuala Sweeney ( http://www.cnn.com/CNN/anchors_reporters/sweeney.fionnuala.html )has quoted Israeli experts’ conclusion that the Gaza deaths could not have been as a result of Israeli anti terror shells but only from “Palestinian” hamas’ criminal planting their beaches with lethal mines.

    - “PALESTINIAN” SUCCESSFUL DECEPTION IN TITLES OF IT’S TERRORISTS’ MOUTHPIECES -

    Then she quoted the “Palestinian human rights watch” that the independent NGO Monitor – Human Rights NGOs – Arab Israeli Conflict ( Human Rights Watch – HRW. Founded 1988 (originally Helsinki Watch, founded in 1978); … Director as an Agent of Palestinian Terrorist Propaganda,” … http://www.ngo-monitor.org/archives/infofile.htm ) has concluded that the head is directly connected to terrorists groups and the entire organization in the “Palestinian” authority is a propaganda tool to “Palestinian” militants.

    I want to think that Mrs. Sweeney is just duped like many are into taking the “Palestinian” tricky devious language as it appears to be.

    - OVERWHELIMING PROOF TO BLAME ONLY “PALESTINIANS” -

    1) Let’s be all frank about it, if Israeli expertise would really have any holes in it, the very vocal extremely active Israeli left would be screaming all over it, as Israel’s self criticism is, probably, number one in the world.

    2) So Israeli real authentic experts had to wait until their finding came out, while totalitarian one-condemning-voice “Palestinians” immediately “knew” to blame Israel, democratic truthful Israel had to swallow world’s report as IF Israel was at fault, for days, until they came with concrete evidence.

    3) If someone knows before he checks it out VS someone that is researching it, I would go with the latter.

    4) If a totalitarian cult with 70% voting and supporting terrorists, full of empty blown drama & experienced lying entity (Jenin Hoax, Muhammad Al Dura that the Arabs killed and blamed Israel for long months & more) tells me a story, but the diversity of democratic self-examined society tells me another thing, I would go with the latter.

    5) I knew it immediately when the Arab “Palestinians” refused to cooperate with Israeli investigation, What where they afraid of?

    Why would the media not be that logical?

    - MEDIA BIASED WAY OF REPORTING -

    Check this out:
    The media first reported last Friday (June 10) as a “fact” that ‘Israel killed them’, instead of reporting, that it is the “Palestinians” who believe (or would like us to believe) that, now when the evidence out of Israeli hospitals (where the dead were) shows us otherwise, the media reports it as “Israel says”, How come?

    Israel “palestine” 101

    Technorati – Freedom “palestine” Hamas Chemical Weapons Genocide bombing Homicide bombing War on terror “palestinians” Human Shields Israel Israelis Raid War on terror “Palestinian” propaganda “Palestinian” lies Media bias Biased media CNN BBC NGO Anti Zionism Hatred Islamofascism

  34. RL says:

    Answer to Jasmine Smith:

    thank you for taking the time to place a long comment on a blog where you know your comment’s not likely to be well received. hope my responses are helpful.

    For people living in the west, being ignorant of the facts happenning on the ground and relying totally on what your media shows you,

    are you there? what media do you rely on for this? i thought i was not relying on media but critiquing it. no?

    this article and the comments do not surprise me at all…if it were israelis on that beach it wudnt have even occured to you that there could be a mini chance that it could be faked..

    please consult our discussion of the difference between the Israeli media (where no one could pull a fake off like this because so many others would denounce it) and the Palestinian media (where fakes are the norm and homerta rules). but i assure you, if i thought that the Israeli media faked something about Palestinians, particularly if it was as obvious as this footage, I’d denounce it as well. My point is that this kind of fake footage designed to create enmity is poison and we need to put in filters to stop the media from pumping this stuff into our information systems.

    you would have called palestinains right away “inhuman child-killing terrorists”..but unfortunately it was a palestinian child’s life that was affected,

    Yes. and unfortunately, there are far too many “inhuman child-killing terrorists” who target children on the Palestinian side. As for these Palestinian lives affected, about which you are indignant — and have every right to be — what will happen to that indignation if it turns out it’s the Palestinians who are responsible. Will you get angry and Hamas? Or will you lose interest, because Palestinian suffering only affects you insofar as it can be blamed on the Israelis and permit you to engage in moral indignation as you do here? Do you care that as many innocent lives are lost in one day in Darfur as in a year in the Arab-Israeli conflict?

    why would you care, you are sitting there comfortably typing your comments amongst your family, and after you finish you will go back to living your life..but houda and millions of others won’t…

    as you may or may not know, in my opinion, the most likely cause of Houda’s misery is her own leadership. had they accepted the Camp David offer and begun to build a state rather than start a vicious war based on another media fake, she and her family and the millions of Palestinians who live under the insane thumb of a leadership dedicated to hatred, would be in far better shape.

    you viewed that clip with eyes of hatred…

    that’s quite a conclusion for you to draw. i saw that clip with eyes trained by looking long and hard at the kind of footage palestinian “cameramen” shoot and dupe their bosses in the western media with. but even as staged, it was about real dead people and real sorrow, and i share that. i think you should be a bit more generous about your “foes” and a bit more skeptical about your “friends.”

    no matter what the media’s intentions were, what you saw were people trying to fake a tragedy… what we saw was a hysteric devastated child who just lost all her family in front of her…

    and here we have the key to the post-modern dilemma. i think you got duped. you think i am blinded by hatred. but whether or not the footage was staged is not a matter of pure opinion, but of discussion, analysis, and sober appraisal. so far you haven’t given me one reason why my skeptical analysis might be wrong.

    if the footage is faked and covering up either Palestinian crime or negligence, and you insist on seeing it as real and Israel’s fault despite the evidence, you need to ask yourself what kind of eyes you see it with. and if you are so committed to your version (which, if it was the fault of Palestinians, your attitude will do nothing to change and much to encourage), then you need to ask yourself if perhaps your blindness comes from eyes filled with hate for Israelis.

    her case is not the first and wont be the last…houda and palestinians dont need to fake anything…

    then why do they do it so often? click here to see how many fakes they did in one day.

    they dont need to prove anything to anyone, the truth is apparent for whoever seeks it…

    spoken like a true believer.

    and palestinians know no matter what happens to them, hardly anyone would care… they dont expect any support from the west and we all memorised by heart how each one reacts to each incident.. what reaction from leaders did that clip gain? some condeming words that dont really mean anything to anyone? or the usual reaction from the US? or arabs?… did it draw any attention to the rate of killings out there? or the condition of people living there?..it did not and nothing will…

    actually there’s no people on the planet who get more sympathy, support, and money than the palestinians. and when you compare their suffering with people like the Sudanese, or the Algerians, and their cause with people like the Tibetans (who had a nation they lost to invading neighbors rather than turned down a nation and invaded neighbors), the the intl attention they get is wildly disproportionate to what it deserves.

    ..im sure if houda’s family was even killed in front of your door steps you would’ve said its all unture…if our hearts were of stone, they wouldve been moved…but what could we ever say, we believe you houda, we know what palestinians are going through, we are sorry we have nothing to offer other than our prayers and emotional support..may God be with you..

    If you really cared about Houda and her people, you would be more interested in the possibility that their own leadership is inflicting much of that suffering on them (as Arab elites do throughout the Arab world). if what you really care about is dumping on Israel and parading your concern for the poor Palestinians only when you can claim that they are the victims of Israeli deeds, then you need to ask yourself honestly how sincere your prayers. Whether you will acknowledge the possibility or not, there is a real chance here that your automatic belief in whatever Palestinian sources tell you, actually contributes to their suffering. Do you care about them? Or about dumping on Israel?

  35. Eliyahu says:

    Dear David,
    There are a lot of insights in your treatment of this peculiar episode and in the comments by others. But I have not seen one important aspect pointed out [maybe I missed it]. That is, that the place on the beach where the picnic was alleged to be held is at the abandoned, former Jewish settlement of Dugit, whence the inhabitants were forced out last year by Sharon. The beach at Dugit is not a place for a picnic and I find it bizarre that anyone would go there for a picnic. It is not and has not been a safe place for a picnic for months now. It is preposterous that a family went there for a picnic.

    Here’s why. Since the Israeli retreat from Gaza and especially since the Hamas was elected, the amount of rocket shooting from Gaza at Israeli communities has much increased. Further, because Israeli civilians are no longer present in northern Gaza, as at Dugit, the rocket shooters have been able to shoot from close to the old 1949 armistice line and the rockets have come closer to the Israeli city of Ashqelon with its vital industrial infrastructure, such as an electrical power plant. To deter such rocket shooting, Israel’s army has been bombarding northern Gaza, including the area of the former Jewish settlements like Dugit, with hundreds or thousands of artillery shells. It is not a place one would go to for a picnic. How do we explain a picnic in that place???

  36. Eliyahu says:

    josh goldman labors under several misconceptions, that can be easily corrected, if he is willing to listen to reason and do some studying of old books and newspapers.

    1-Israel had no borders before 1967 with what is called “the West Bank.” There was an armistice line determined in 1949 in negotiations at Rhodes [through the UN mediator, Ralph Bunche].

    2- Israel is not “occupying” the so-called “west bank.” That area was part of the Jewish National Home, juridically erected by the San Remo Conference of 1920, endorsed by the League of Nations in 1922, approved in the Anglo-American treaty re “Palestine” of 1925 [or 1924], confirmed in Article 80 of the UN Charter, etc. The UN partition resolution of 11-29-1947 did not decide borders since it was a General Assembly resolution, and GA resolutions on political issues can only be recommendations according to the UN Charter [see Articles 10-12]. In other words, according to international law, all of the so-called West Bank has remained as part of the Jewish National Home until today. I am well aware that the “international community” today does not accept what is international law, since the “int’l community” has become much more Judeophobic than even in 1939, due to worldwide Judeophobic indoctrination. If we look at the beginning of Israel’s War of Independence, we see that it was begun by Arab attacks on Jews starting immediately after the UN vote of 11-29-1947. The first people driven out of their homes in that war were Jews, both in south Tel Aviv and in the Jerusalem neighborhood of Shim`on haTsadiq [driven out in December 1947].

  37. [...] 06 am — Print This Post When I saw the footage from Ramattan that PATV ran at PMW for my analysis, I noticed that Houda can [...]

  38. Re: Israeli strikes hit family picnic

    "Is it Pallywood?: Thoughts on the Footage from the Gaza Beach"
    http://www.t

  39. [...] f day, and with whose expert help it lit up the world of anti-semitism and Jihad, ran this latest Pallywood footage with his usual p [...]

  40. MANNY NAZZAL says:

    NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PALESTINIANS………ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO FIND A WAY TO TOTALLY DISTORT THE FACTS . I’M SURE THERE IS SOME TRUTH TO WHAT I JUST READ , BUT YOU ARE TRYING TO TELL ME THAT ISRAELI ATROCITIES DO NOT EXIST ??? I KNOW THAT THERE ARE PALESTINIAN ATROCITES……..BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MASSACRES DATING BACK IN 1947 TILL THE PRESENT ? WHAT ABOUT THE TARGETING OF AID TO THE WOUNDED ? THE FACT IS THAT IN 1948 WHEN ISRAEL BECAME A NATION……..THE NUMBER OF SOLDIERS OR FIGHTERS ON EACH SIDE WERE ABOUT THE SAME . THE ISRAELIS HAD TOP NOTCH MILITARY EQUIPMENT……THE ARABS HAD THE INFERIOR WEAPONS . SO YOU GET , LETS SAY 30,000 FIGHTERS ON EACH SIDE , WHO DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO WIN ??? THE WAY THE FUCKED UP MEDIA PORTRAYS IS……….OH , ISRAEL WAS ATTACKED BY 5 ARAB NATIONS ETC . AND HERE IS ANOTHER BIG LIE……..THE PROPAGANDA ON THE ISRAELI SIDE IS THAT THE PALESTINIANS FLED ……….WELL CHECK THIS OUT…….SURE SOME FLED……..BUT MOST WERE FORCED OUT OF THEIR OWN PROPERTY…………I AM A PALESTINIAN AMERICAN………..CATHOLIC . THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS JUDEO CHRISTIAN . THIS TERM WAS BROUGHT UP AFTER WORLD WAR TWO . I LOVE EVERYBODY . AND I KNOW THE HATRED THAT A ARAB HAS FOR HIS ENEMY IS NOTHING COMPARED TO THE NAZI ATTITUDE THE ISRAELIS HAVE FOR THE PALESTINIANS . I HAVE GOOD FRIENDS WHO ARE JEWISH , AND THEY SEE WHAT THE ISRALEIS DO TO THE PALESTINIANS. THE RIGHT WING BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS OF THIS COUNTRY DON’T PREACH CHRISTIANITY , THEY PREACH RACISM . MY SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST DOES NOT TELL PEOPLE TO GO AND KILL ARABS BECAUSE OF SOME DISTORTED VIEW THE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS HAVE ON BELIEVING ISLAM IS EVIL . MY GOD DOES NOT BELIEVE IN WAR LIKE THAT BIG LIE IN IRAQ………….YOU GUYS REALLY THINK BUSH IS A MAN OF GOD……….WE ARE NOT BLESSED HERE . WE HAVE THE BIGGEST ABORTION RATE IN THE WORLD , THE BIGGEST MURDER RATE , THE BIGGEST CHILD MOLESTATION , AND YOU THINK THOSE WHO BLESS ISRAEL WILL BE BLESSED ??? WE HAVE THE BIGGEST DIVORCE RATE IN THE WORLD. EVERY CIY IN THE UNTITED STATES IS LIKE SODOM AND GAMMORA……….I LOVE MY COUNTRY , I DON’T HAVE TO LIKE A LYING MOTHER FUCKER TO LOVE MY COUNTRY .

  41. RL says:

    I received this comment from Manny Nazal. You can tell my text from his because his is in caps.

    NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PALESTINIANS………ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO FIND A WAY TO TOTALLY DISTORT THE FACTS . I’M SURE THERE IS SOME TRUTH TO WHAT I JUST READ,

    in other words that the facts have been distorted by the Palestinians?

    BUT YOU ARE TRYING TO TELL ME THAT ISRAELI ATROCITIES DO NOT EXIST ???

    no, i am not. although I would like your definition of an atrocity before we identify them among Israelis and Arabs.

    I KNOW THAT THERE ARE PALESTINIAN ATROCITES……..BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MASSACRES DATING BACK IN 1947 TILL THE PRESENT ?

    which ones do you have in mind? do you include Jenin 2002, Gaza Beach 2006?

    WHAT ABOUT THE TARGETING OF AID TO THE WOUNDED ? THE FACT IS THAT IN 1948 WHEN ISRAEL BECAME A NATION……..THE NUMBER OF SOLDIERS OR FIGHTERS ON EACH SIDE WERE ABOUT THE SAME . THE ISRAELIS HAD TOP NOTCH MILITARY EQUIPMENT……THE ARABS HAD THE INFERIOR WEAPONS . SO YOU GET , LETS SAY 30,000 FIGHTERS ON EACH SIDE , WHO DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO WIN ???

    where do you get this evidence, both for the alleged military superiority of the Israeli armament, and the number of troops?

    THE WAY THE FUCKED UP MEDIA PORTRAYS IS……….OH , ISRAEL WAS ATTACKED BY 5 ARAB NATIONS ETC .

    how is that not true?

    AND HERE IS ANOTHER BIG LIE……..THE PROPAGANDA ON THE ISRAELI SIDE IS THAT THE PALESTINIANS FLED ……….WELL CHECK THIS OUT…….SURE SOME FLED……..BUT MOST WERE FORCED OUT OF THEIR OWN PROPERTY…………

    okay. but tell me honestly, if the Arabs had won in 1948, what do you think would have happened?

    I AM A PALESTINIAN AMERICAN………..CATHOLIC . THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS JUDEO CHRISTIAN . THIS TERM WAS BROUGHT UP AFTER WORLD WAR TWO . I LOVE EVERYBODY . AND I KNOW THE HATRED THAT A ARAB HAS FOR HIS ENEMY IS NOTHING COMPARED TO THE NAZI ATTITUDE THE ISRAELIS HAVE FOR THE PALESTINIANS .

    and what’s your evidence for this? have you visited PMW and MEMRI? can you show me anything remotely resembling that kind of hatred in Israeli or Jewish sources? are you trying to be honest, or are you just trying to throw punches.

    I HAVE GOOD FRIENDS WHO ARE JEWISH , AND THEY SEE WHAT THE ISRALEIS DO TO THE PALESTINIANS.

    and where and how do they see it? on TV? what if the images on TV are not reliable?
    unfortunately, it would be much harder for an American to be able to say, “I have Palestinian friends, and they see what the Arabs and Muslims are doing to Jews all over the world and especially in Israel…” Most of the Arab-Americans i’ve met are not very critical of the Arabs. on the contrary, they’re like you, quick to denounce Israel and the US, quick to defend the Palestinians.

    THE RIGHT WING BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS OF THIS COUNTRY DON’T PREACH CHRISTIANITY , THEY PREACH RACISM . MY SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST DOES NOT TELL PEOPLE TO GO AND KILL ARABS BECAUSE OF SOME DISTORTED VIEW THE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS HAVE ON BELIEVING ISLAM IS EVIL . MY GOD DOES NOT BELIEVE IN WAR LIKE THAT BIG LIE IN IRAQ………….

    okay, but if that’s really your attitude, how can you be so uncritical of sources that are a) so patently dishonest, and b) driving so strongly towards hatred and war? does your savior tell Arabs to go kill Jews because of some distorted view of born-again Islam in which the Jews are evil? are you selective in your pacifism?

    YOU GUYS REALLY THINK BUSH IS A MAN OF GOD……….

    who do you think i am? have you read any of my writings? still throwing wild punches?

    WE ARE NOT BLESSED HERE . WE HAVE THE BIGGEST ABORTION RATE IN THE WORLD , THE BIGGEST MURDER RATE , THE BIGGEST CHILD MOLESTATION ,

    i’m confused. “we” is… the USA? where do you get your statistics? what makes you think child molestation isn’t much higher in some cultures (which will go nameless), but is under-reported? what about the highest rate of summary executions for “collaboration with the enemy”? and highest rate of “honor-killings”? we can all play this game.

    AND YOU THINK THOSE WHO BLESS ISRAEL WILL BE BLESSED ???

    historically, that seems to be the case. look at the opposite: the Arabs in the 20th century, like the Spanish in the 16th century, kicked out their Jews. in both cases their cultures went into tailspins that were especially notable since their economic condition declined sharply despite being pumped full of money (gold from the new world and petrodollars).

    WE HAVE THE BIGGEST DIVORCE RATE IN THE WORLD. EVERY CIY IN THE UNTITED STATES IS LIKE SODOM AND GAMMORA……….I LOVE MY COUNTRY , I DON’T HAVE TO [Lie?] LIKE A LYING MOTHER FUCKER TO LOVE MY COUNTRY .

    i’m confused. you love america? it sure doesn’t sound like it? you sound full of hatred and anger, and i’m not sure why it’s aimed exclusively at the USA and Israel when there’s so much hatred and violence to object to among your fellow Arabs.

  42. MANNY NAZZAL says:

    RICHARD……….I UNDERSTAND THAT PALESTINIANS OR WHOEVER WILL LIE AND MISINFORM , OK . BUT SO WILL ISRAELIS AND WHOEVER ETC . IT GOES BOTH WAYS . BUT I DO KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THE ISRAELIS HAVE BEEN SLAUGHTERING , HUMILIATING , AND SO ON TO THE PALESTINIANS , I AM NOT SAYING THE ARABS DON’T DO THAT EITHER , IF SOMEONE KILLED 6,000,000 OF MY PEOPLE I WOULD BE RAISING HELL TOO . YOU ARE A VERY EDUCATED PERSON , I KNOW YOU KNOW WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON IN THE HOLY LAND SINCE 1930′S ETC .

  43. MANNY NAZZAL says:

    WHERE ARE YOUR QUESTIONS RICHARD ?

  44. MANNY NAZZAL says:

    DEAR RICHARD………..LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE , IN 1948 , ABOUT 500,000 OR SO PALESTINIANS WERE FORCED OUT OF THEIR HOMES………..I KNOW SOME LEFT ON THEIR OWN……..BUT THE MEDIA HAS BRAINWASHED EVERYONE INTO THINKING THAT THE ARABS ALL LEFT ON THEIR OWN . WHICH IS BULLSHIT……….WHEN I WAS A CHILD , MY FATHER TOLD ME ALOT OF INFO , I DIDN’T BELEIVE HIM . NOW THAT I AM ANADULT , I CHECKED IT ALL OUT AND HE WAS CORRECT , HE IS DEAD NOW . I CAN’T FIND THE QUESTIONS YOU ASKED ME ?

  45. MANNY NAZZAL says:

    DEAR RICHARD………..OF COURSE ITS TRUE THAT ISRAEL WAS ATTACKED BY ITS ARAB NEIGHBORS, WHEN MY FATHER WAS ALIVE , HE TOLD ME THAT HE KNEW OF A JEWISH 10,000 STRONG REGIMENT THAT WAS HIGHLY SKILLED , TAUGHT BY THE BRITISH………DON’T GET ME WRONG , MY FATHER ALSO TOLD ME THAT OUR ARAB INTELLICT GOES LIKE THIS……….””””””””HE TOLD ME THAT YOU CAN GET A LARGE CAN , FILL THEM UP WITH SMALL PEBBLES AND START SHAKING THEM………THAT WOULD CAUSE A RAMALLAH UP ROAR ??? lolol………SO ITS NOT LIKE WE ARE TRYING TO BE ONE SIDED . RICHARD , NOW CHECK THIS OUT………YOU SEEM TO BE A VERY LEVEL HEADED PERSON , AND THAT IS REALLY COOL . I RESPECT YOU VERY MUCH..BACK TO WHAT I WAS SAYING……THAT 10,000 STRONG JEWISH REGIMENT WAS NOT THE ONLY ONE……SO YOU GET ABOUT 30,000 TO MAYBE 35,000 JEWISH FIGHTERS WITH THE BEST ARSENAL AGAINST LETS SAY 35,000 TO 40,000 ARAB FIGHTERS , FIGHTING WITH THEIR LONG GARB , SMALL MINDED FARMER TYPE PEOPLE……….WELL OF COURSE THE ISRAELIS WILL WIN……….WHAT CAN I SAY .
    LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK OF MY REPLY AND I WILL REPLY BACK TO YOU WITH RESPECT……..HAVE A GOOD EVENING……….MANNY

  46. MANNY NAZZAL says:

    DEAR RICHARD……….I DO APOLOGISE FOR THE BAD LANGUAGE . I HAVE AN AUNT WHO ALONG WITH HER FAMILY WAS FORCED OFF THEIR PROPERTY IN JERUSALEM . DO YOU THINK SABRA AND SHATILA IS A FORM OF PALLYWOOD ? OR DEIR YASSAN ? OR A NUMBER OF OTHER MASSACRES ? DO YOU KNOW WHO THE JDL IS ??? DO YOU THINK THEY ARE A MELLOW PEACE LOVING GROUP OF PEOPLE ? THE HATRED THEY HAVE FOR ME , FOR BEING PALESTINIAN , I COULD NEVER HAVE HATRED LIKE THAT FOR ANYBODY . DO YOU THINK THAT WHEN ALEX ODEH WAS KILLED WHEN A BOMB BLEW OFF AS HE ENTERED HIS OFFICE IN THE LOS ANGELAS AREA BACK IN THE 80′S IS PALLYWOOD ? THE SUSPECTS FLED TO ISRAEL AND THE FBI ASKED THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT TO HAND THEM OVER YEARS AGO . ISRALE NEVER DID . ARIEL SHARON RESIGNED IN RESPONSE TO HIS OWN GOVERNMENT FOR BEING INDIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SABRA AND SHATILA MASSACRES . HE KNEW WHAT THE PHALANGE WERE GOING TO DO……..AFTER HIS GOVERNMENT AND REAGAN ASSURED THE PLO THAT THEIR CIVILIAN POPULATION WOULD BE LEFT ALONE , 3 DAYS AFTER THEY LEFT……….LOOK WHAT HAPPENED . RICHARD……I KNOW YOU ARE MORE EDUCATED THEN I AM . I AM THE OLDEST IN MY FAMILY AND THE DUMBEST . AS IN ONLY EARNING 33,000 DOLLARS A YEAR . MY WHOLE FAMILY IS EDUCATED………I GUESS YOU CAN SAY I AM THE BLACK SHEEP . BUT I DO KNOW THIS……..YOU CANNOT SAY THAT EVERYTHING YOU SEE IS PALLYWOOD ???? WHY WOULDN’T THE ISRAELIS HAVE THE BETTER ARSENAL ? JEWISH ORGANIZATIONS HERE WERE FUNNELING MONEY AND WEAPONS TO THE JEWISH FIGHTERS . MANY WERE CAUGHT AND MANY MADE IT THRU . AGAIN I APOLOGISE FOR THE BAD LANGUAGE……………MANNY

  47. MANNY NAZZAL says:

    Richard………..I didn’t read you asking me to chill out with the capital letters until it was to late . I called you last night to apologise for the language I was using , forgive me . I also wanted to ask you about the campaign when the Israelis went after the PLO back in the 1980′s . did you know just in 3 months , 17,000 civilians were killed by Israeli cluster and other bombs ? Now there was an Israeli human rights group that did an investigation on “if Hebollah was hiding among the civilian population in the last campaign ? And guess what ? They found no evidence , whatsoever………I beleive that a U.S. Marine fresh out of boot camp , then 6 months of training after that is not prepared to go to Iraq . I’m sure the special forces etc. is trained to go but I also don’t believe an Israeli soldier , lets say at the age of 19 or 21 no matter how high tech equipment he has is still not prepared to fight against a group such as Hesbollah . Because these guys have been training since they were young . An Israeli ground troop at a young age is is not prepared for something like that . Am I making sense ? Sure I am . Did you see the Israeli children writing ” from Israel with love on the arsenal they were using on civilians ” ?
    I will wait for your response…………Manny

  48. RL says:

    Response to Manny

    Richard………..I didn’t read you asking me to chill out with the capital letters until it was to late . I called you last night to apologise for the language I was using , forgive me .

    No problem. Thanks for being responsive.

    I also wanted to ask you about the campaign when the Israelis went after the PLO back in the 1980’s . did you know just in 3 months , 17,000 civilians were killed by Israeli cluster and other bombs ?

    I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Do you mean the first Intifada? But that was four years long (1988-91) with far fewer casualties (ca. 1300 Palestinians killed by Israelis, many hundreds of Palestinians killed by Palestinians).

    Where are you getting your figures? They sound like they are referring to the number of Palestinians killed by King Hussein’s troops in “Black September, 1970” — one month, 5,000-20,000 estimated casualties from civilian massacres on both sides (Jordanian and Palestinian). And this was a preview of the 100,000 civilians who would be killed by various Arab factions in the Lebanese Civil War which began shortly after the PLO fled Jordan to Lebanon.

    Now there was an Israeli human rights group that did an investigation on “if Hezbollah was hiding among the civilian population in the last campaign ? And guess what ? They found no evidence , whatsoever………

    what investigation? can you give me the link? do you really believe this? what about this? and what about this? Mind you, this kind of action by Hizbullah goes way back. This was part of PLO strategy (also using Lebanese Christians as shields) in the 1970s-80s. Why are you so ready to believe atrocities of Israelis, but not of Arabs?

    I beleive that a U.S. Marine fresh out of boot camp , then 6 months of training after that is not prepared to go to Iraq . I’m sure the special forces etc. is trained to go but I also don’t believe an Israeli soldier , lets say at the age of 19 or 21 no matter how high tech equipment he has is still not prepared to fight against a group such as Hesbollah . Because these guys have been training since they were young . An Israeli ground troop at a young age is is not prepared for something like that . Am I making sense ? Sure I am . Did you see the Israeli children writing ” from Israel with love on the arsenal they were using on civilians ” ?

    I’m not sure what your point is about the Israeli and Hizbullah training. As for the story of the Israeli children, they were writing messages to Nasrallah. If you want a detailed investigation of the incident, I think many anti-Zionists misinterpreted, see here. But also, even in its worst version does not compete with the kinds of celebrations of deliberate acts of mass murder of civilians that take place in the Arab world.

    Help me here, Manny. You seem so indignant about what Israel is doing. Aren’t you the slightest bit embarrassed by the death cults that Arabs enthusiastically embrace?

    You seem to believe anything that accuses the Israelis, no matter how wild the numbers involved — 17,000! the Israelis haven’t killed a fraction of that number in 60 years of warfare — and ignore the murderous behavior not only of Arabs towards Jews, but Arabs towards Arabs — 17,000 Arab dead is a matter of a few weeks work for King Hussein, Saddam Hussein, Hafez al Assad. How can you get so morally indignant when the neighborhood is so ugly?

  49. MANNY NAZZAL says:

    Dear Richard ,
    No, not the first intifada . I’m talking about when the Israelis invaded Lebanon back in 1982 . Months before the Sabra and Shatila massacres . How old are you Richard ? How old where you in 1982 ?

    Richard , I’m getting my figures from having a somewhat phtographic meemory . That’s why Sharon resigned from his cabinet . Thousands of Israeli’s even protested that campaign. Numerous Israeli soldiers
    refused to go to Lebanon during that campaign .

    I am not saying Arabs are not responsible for atrocities, but I do believe Hisbollah was not using civilians as shields.

    Richard, of course I am embarrassed from Arab actions . You think I advertise that I am a Arab ? I am proud that my people are Christians who come from the holy land but I don’t make a habit to tell everyone I am an Arab .

    I have an 18 year old son who lives with me also . He is half Mexican and half Palestinian . And with all the B.S. happening I always tell him ” Don’t advertise that your Palestinian ” .

    Richard, my boss is a full on born again Christian who totally supports Israel . He is the one who told me about Pallywood . No matter what argument him and I get into , he is still my buddy . And its obvious that opposition means true friendship . The next time you go to Israel , let me know and maybe my boss and myself will travel with you . And i will make a point to both sides , if you guys can’t get along then you must leave the hold land , jews and arabs that is . My boss told me , Manny , the arabs will kill you if they find out that your a Christian and a Palestinian . He is probably right , so I guess that plan is not a good plan LOLOL . Manny

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  55. Alex Penkas says:

    You have no shame what so ever

    Not only that you are mass murderers and war criminals but you do the impossible work of covering up the crime and turn the victims to criminals

    I wish I could spit on your faces

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