Just How Bad can the NYT Get? Jeffrey Woolf fisks Ethan Bronner on Religion and the IDF

I was just at a panel discussion at Boston College about “Israel Apartheid Week” (about which more later). One of the questions posed (in part in response to Dexter van Zile’s comment that the “Apartheid Narrative” scapegoated Israel for the world’s ills) ran somewhat as follows: “Don’t you think that Israel participated in its own scapegoating by not letting in the Western press.

As part of my answer, I tried to explain how, if Western journalists actually did their job, it would have been good to have them in Gaza, but that given how wedded (read: addicted) they are to the framing story of Israeli Goliath / Palestinian David, the chances that they would actually reveal to the West just how systematically Hamas sought to victimize its own people and literally create a humanitarian crisis were pretty slim.

Most people don’t realize just how bad the MSM is in its coverage of the Arab-Israeli conflict, how reluctant they are, for a variety of reasons that span the spectrum from ideological to venal to cowardice, to reveal to their audiences the moral depravity of the Palestinian side. The best current example of the obsession of the Western press with every blemish of the Israelis and their corresponding obliviousness to the Palestinians is probably the work of Ethan Bronner, the NYT mideast correspondent.

Here, Jeffrey Woolf fisks Bronner on the topic of the impact of religious impulses in the Israeli army during the Gaza war. One can easily imagine that the Palestinian version of this article would involve discussing their genocidal ideology, and a host of other problems that would make his remarks — even before Woolf’s corrections — pale in comparison. Alas, don’t expect them anytime soon.

Fisking Bronner on Religious Soldiers
[There is so much wrong with this piece, I decided to pull an Augean Stables.]

    A religious war within the Israeli Army

    By Ethan Bronner
    Sunday, March 22, 2009

    JERUSALEM: The publication late last week of eyewitness accounts by Israeli soldiers alleging acute mistreatment of Palestinian civilians in the recent Gaza fighting highlights a debate here about the rules of war. But it also exposes something else: the clash between secular liberals and religious nationalists for control over the army and society.

The credibility of these charges has since been seriously impugned and they are, in any event, extremely distorted. See here.

    Several of the testimonies, published by an institute that runs a premilitary course and is affiliated with the left-leaning secular kibbutz movement, showed a distinct impatience with religious soldiers, portraying them as self-appointed holy warriors.

    A soldier, identified by the pseudonym Ram, is quoted as saying that in Gaza, “the rabbinate brought in a lot of booklets and articles and their message was very clear: We are the Jewish people, we came to this land by a miracle, God brought us back to this land and now we need to fight to expel the non-Jews who are interfering with our conquest of this holy land. This was the main message, and the whole sense many soldiers had in this operation was of a religious war.”

The quote is second hand, therefore, suspect. Even if accurate, though, Ram obviously did not understand that מלחמת מצוה does not mean jihad. It refers to a war to defend Jews from attack or to conquer the land of Israel. The booklets do not stress the latter, only the former. Furthermore, since when is it bad to believe in God, in His Providence or in His promise of the Land of Israel to the People of Israel?


    Dany Zamir, the director of the one-year premilitary course who solicited the testimonies and then leaked them, leading to a promise by the military to investigate, is quoted in the transcripts as expressing anguish over the growing religious nationalist elements of the military.

    “If clerics are anointing us with oil and sticking holy books in our hands, and if the soldiers in these units aren’t representative of the whole spectrum of the Jewish people, but rather of certain segments of the population, what can we expect?” he said. “To whom do we complain?”

Danny Zamir is a radical Leftist, who goes around the world preaching that Israel is a racist, apartheid state. See here. Notice the unctious rhetoric he employs in describing the IDF rabbis and religious soldiers. The man’s agenda is anti-religion, period.

    For the first four decades of Israel’s existence, the army — like many of the country’s institutions — was dominated by kibbutz members who saw themselves as secular, Western and educated. In the past decade or two, religious nationalists, including many from the settler movement in the West Bank, have moved into more and more positions of military responsibility. (In Israeli society, they are a growing force, distinct from, and more modern than, the black-garbed ultra-Orthodox, who are excused from military service.)

One might think there had been a putsch or a purge of secular soldiers. The truth is: a) secular families have few or no children b) the percentage of secular Israeli emigres is very high c) the percentage of secular Israeli kids who dodge or avoid army service is the highest in the country (after Haredim and Arabs, who don’t give lip service to Zionism) d) The Kibbutzim have gone bankrupt, both fiscally and ideologically. Finally, the country has, for almost twenty years, been in the midst of a renewal of Jewish identity and the consequent decline in doctrinnaire secularism. The morale building materials distributed by the IDF Rabbinate were snapped up by huge numbers of soldiers, both religious and so-called secular.

Read the rest.

Note that, depending on Palestinian sources, Bronner wrote on January 6, 2009 that there were 640 dead Palestinians, one quarter of whom (160) were civilians. Then four days later he wrote that there were 820 dead, half of them civilians (410) civilians. Which meant that in four days, there were 180 killed, of which 250 were civilians.

51 Responses to Just How Bad can the NYT Get? Jeffrey Woolf fisks Ethan Bronner on Religion and the IDF

  1. [...] Brave New Wave – Children of a Lesser Revolution placed an interesting blog post on Just How Bad can the NYT Get? Jeffrey Woolf fisks Ethan Bronner on…Here’s a brief overviewI was just at a panel discussion at Boston College about “Israel Apartheid Week” (about which more later). [...]

  2. Tom says:

    Sorry to disappoint you, but euhm … given Jewish theoloy … the rabbinate’s position is entirely true.

    It it true even if, yes, it would be a very atypical position for the rabbinate to take.

  3. oao says:

    Furthermore, since when is it bad to believe in God, in His Providence or in His promise of the Land of Israel to the People of Israel?

    since we have learned enough about the world to make religion obsolete as an explanation of the world, which was invented when we did not know any better.

    i do not think that the proper response to the islamists’ claim that according to allah once muslim land always muslim land is according to iahweh the land is jewish.

    this, of course, does not negate the crap that the MSM and Bronner produce, but is a separate issue.

  4. Chaim says:

    Great article by Danny Zamir:

    Personal Code of IDF soldier: May our camp be pure
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1238562926523

  5. Solomonia says:

    Boston College: The Truth About Apartheid in the Middle East…

    Last night I attended a talk at Boston College entitled "Restoring Intellectual Integrity: The Truth About Apartheid in the Middle East." Held as part of the response to a series of smash Israel events on campus, the evening featured BC……

  6. simon says:

    There are rare voices of sanity in the mainstream press.

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25310897-5013460,00.html

  7. Lorenz Gude says:

    The need to demonize Jews is breathtaking. A century ago it was largely the right. Now it is the left. Here you have a bunch of self defined religious fanatics that openly teach their children to hate and kill Jews and all the right thinking intelligentsia and their paper of record can do is pass on fevered fantasies about an Israeli army dominated by a vast religious conspiracy. They are grotesque. They also make it impossible to engage reality – enabling and encouraging the Palestinians and their allies to engage in barbarous behavior while finding or manufacturing any excuse to accuse Israel of the same. I don’t know what Israel can do, but the last two Iran’s proxies is pretty futile.

  8. oao says:

    I don’t know what Israel can do, but the last two Iran’s proxies is pretty futile.

    I know what it should do: if they are already being accused, they should actually do some of what they are accused of that would be effective in defeating the terror and iran for an extended period.

    there is a theory of the crazy state. israel should behave like that, so that nobody would know what it’ll do next and should be afraid.

    unfortunately, they are appeasers and self-defeating and thus getting doubly screwed: they are defeating themselves in vain.

  9. Cynic says:

    There are rare voices of sanity in the mainstream press.

    yes, and unfortunately it seems rare voices of sanity amongst the comments.

  10. Cynic says:

    I left out only
    in
    yes, and unfortunately it seems only rare voices of sanity amongst the comments.

  11. oao says:

    yes, and unfortunately it seems only rare voices of sanity amongst the comments.

    becoming rarer and rarer as they realize it’s useless.

  12. simon says:

    Yes as usual the comments sections and replies to editorials and opinions are dominated by the anti-Israel side. It would be interesting to see if this is also media bias and right wing replies are removed or minimalised to reinforce the general populations acceptance of the propaganda. Certainly it feels this way with most media.

  13. Sophia says:

    I’m becoming concerned with the NYT’s apparent desire to create bias against Israel – the Roger Cohen articles are almost bizarre.

    They focus on painting Israel as liars or hysterics (reminiscent of accusations that Jews in the 1930′s were “hysterical”).

    Meanwhile Iran is portrayed as a bastion of human rights because it permits a few Jews to live there – of course he neglects to mention the egregious human rights violations that worry even the far left in Britain – even some Guardian articles have noticed that Iran isn’t a Worker’s Paradise let alone safe for women, dissidents, gay people, trade unionists – not to mention the Ba’hai – nor is the Jewish community there allowed any real freedom or political power and Muslims aren’t allowed to vote for a Jew.

    Indeed the slate of electoral candidates is pre-selected by the theocracy – yet Roger Cohen focuses on Israel and today claims they are “crying wolf” and characterizes the US as being “enslaved” by Israel, which is an antisemitic calumny for starters – but also he manages to ignore Iranian insults such as the Holocaust cartoon contest/Holocaust denial and open threats against Israel including funds that arm and support the most radical Palestinian factions as well as Hezbollah.

    This stuff is truly astonishing especially coming from a theoretically liberal Western newspaper.

    It is astonishing and it is frightening and I don’t understand what possible motive could be behind it – I do understand a desire not to see more warfare in the Middle East – so for the record I personally don’t support unnecessary military action when diplomacy and education will do the job.

    Nor do I think Iran should be seen only in terms of the crackpot comments emerging from some Iranian politicians – obviously it is a complex and interesting country but so is Israel – both after all consist of human beings and both represent ancient civilizations as well as fascinating modern nations.

    But one (Iran) has deliberately and provocatively and repeatedly threatened to destroy the other and also threatens the US and characterizes us as “Satan” whereas Israel is a friend and ally.

    So yes, the NYT can and did get worse.

    Can somebody please explain this to me? Because I don’t get it.

  14. oao says:

    They focus on painting Israel as liars or hysterics (reminiscent of accusations that Jews in the 1930’s were “hysterical”).

    it’s as if they are assigning everything about the arabs/muslims to israel.

    This stuff is truly astonishing especially coming from a theoretically liberal Western newspaper.

    well, the papaer is desperate and is clueless about what to do to survive so they think that catering to the currently popular leftist anti-semitism will save it. I also think that there is loss of control due to its collapse.

    It is astonishing and it is frightening and I don’t understand what possible motive could be behind it

    what is astonishing that after thousands of years of antisemitism people still don’t understand it: it is SCAPEGOATING DURING CRISIS!!!! it’s always been that. america is collapsing and instead of admitting its own responsibility, it does what everybody did: it blames the jews.

  15. Cynic says:

    Sophia,

    Start by surmising that Roger Cohen has an intense dislike for his roots, to put it mildly, and absolutely hates Israel which shoves it is his face daily. He writes for a paper which has practically all its gray lady life been disparaging about Jews; and starting with those two parameters one can evolve an hypothesis which most probably will prove to be more rational than attempting to assume that the guy and his paper are on terra firma.

    So yes, the NYT can and did get worse.
    because it is getting desperate and just digging deeper.

  16. oao says:

    it’s not just MSM, but the academia too, which is obvious:

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/04102009/postopinion/editorials/columbias_new_low_163776.htm

    i recommend everybody reads Glick’s last column:

    Surviving in a post-American world
    http://www.carolineglick.com/e/2009/04/surviving_in_a_postamerican_wo.asp

  17. oao says:

    a long piece on the nyt in vanity fair, have not read it yet:

    http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2009/05/new-york-times200905

  18. oao says:

    and now is business in it too:

    Welcome to Palestinian “Fair Trade”: Olive Oil Sold @ Whole Foods Funds Study @ Anti-Semitic, Pro-HAMAS Universities; Dr. Bronner’s Soap, Too
    http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2009/04/a_new_olive_oil.html

  19. oao says:

    oppressing the iraeli arabs:

    2:05PM: An Israeli medical student killed in the earthquake in L’Aquila, Italy will be buried today.

    Meanwhile:

    The family praised everyone involved in the rescue effort, including the Israeli Foreign Ministry’s situation room in Rome and the consulate, and members of the Arab community in Italy that hosted the father over the past week.

    Yes, that’s right, he was an Arab.

    We once again fail miserably in the areas of apartheid and ethnic cleansing.

    http://www.israellycool.com/

  20. oao says:

    Another “League of Trembling Israelites” Moment
    http://myrightword.blogspot.com/2009/04/another-league-of-trembling-israelites.html

    if jews do it, why should we be surprised at the goyim and muslims?

  21. oao says:

    and here are the consequences:

    http://www.thejc.com/print/13648

    that’s how it begins.

  22. Cynic says:

    oao,

    Some time back, about two years ago if memory serves, several Jewish families had their homes invaded by “thugs” who beat up the head of the house and damaged stuff.

  23. Eliyahu says:

    cynic, I don’t necessarily agree with you about roger Cohen. First of all, he’s british. That means that he grew up in an intensely anti-Israel intellectual climate. Anti-Israel indoctrination has been ongoing and intense in the UK for many years. The bbc is a big part of it. Also the “far-left” has been coopted into the anti-Israel movement and shows less interest in the UK working class. Think of the British SWP. Several british dailies and weeklies follow the anti-Israel line and very nastily, as in the case of the guardian [sometimes called the Groniad]. Maybe he was sent to or brought to NY to work for the NYT because of his anti-Israel british training. Think of other major anti-Israel writers in the USA, alexander cockburn and christopher hitchens. What is their mission in the US?

  24. sshender says:

    i do not think that the proper response to the islamists’ claim that according to allah once muslim land always muslim land is according to iahweh the land is jewish.

    Couldn’t agree more! Of all the article, this is the part which made me most uneasy. How is it that highly intelligent people can’t see the fallacy of invoking religion to justify their claims, however justified.

    there is a theory of the crazy state. israel should behave like that, so that nobody would know what it’ll do next and should be afraid.

    Another thumbs up! In a hostile middle east this seems to be the wisest path. There is, however, a downside to that tactic, that is the pressure from the international community which can cause serious damage if tampered with to the extremes.

    it is SCAPEGOATING DURING CRISIS!!!! it’s always been that. america is collapsing and instead of admitting its own responsibility, it does what everybody did: it blames the jews.

    Hence M&W gain prominance far exceeding their true value, and the Jewish cabal… I mean the “Israel Lobby” is gaining legetimicy and dominance in the mainstream discourse. What is most striking (and frightening) in your solid observation is that the US is ominously close to the edge, yet is in complete denial about it. As much as I despise the “New World Order” conspiracy crackpots, a new world order is indeed the reality in the post cold war era, where it seesms that the bastion of western civilization has all but given up on itself, and the last standing stronghold is heading steadfast in the same direction.

    which most probably will prove to be more rational than attempting to assume that the guy and his paper are on terra firma.

    I beg to differ. Based on my aquentance, I think that they are driven by purely ideological impulses, and accusing them of peddling to their audience serves only to 1) diminish the true syndrom of their delusion and the threat they pose by rendering it insincere and financially motivated and 2) show their critics (us in this case) in a bad light as incapable of rising above ad hominem assaults.

  25. sshender says:

    Cynic, the last part was supposed to be addressed at oao, and your quote is a mess-up.

  26. oao says:

    Maybe he was sent to or brought to NY to work for the NYT because of his anti-Israel british training.

    The article about the NYT I referred to above does the usual wishwashy story about Sulzberger, the publisher. But one things comes out: his “social causes and responsibility” of the rich — read: lefty. He made himself a rich-dady’s boy and went through the motions to inherit him and developed the salon leftism so characteristic of the rich. Is there any wonder that his paper is leftist anti-semitic?

    eliyahu,

    there is no contradiction between what you argue and what cynic argues. the latter produced the former.

  27. oao says:

    How is it that highly intelligent people can’t see the fallacy of invoking religion to justify their claims, however justified.

    that’s how they got to be religious in the first place.

    There is, however, a downside to that tactic, that is the pressure from the international community which can cause serious damage if tampered with to the extremes.

    1st, they’re already doing the damage anyway. and 2nd, the whole point of crazyness is to make them think twice before they do more damage. that’s what the jihadis do so effectively in scaring the west and they managed to make them commit suicide.

    Hence M&W gain prominance far exceeding their true value, and the Jewish cabal…

    somewhere around here i linked to an article i wrote which made this very point. m&w are typical scapegoaters as a way to prominence and “relevance”.

    the US is ominously close to the edge, yet is in complete denial about it.

    i’m afraid it is over the edge. if it wasn’t before alibama, he guarantees it. europe is already gone.
    as to the denial, can you point to any societal collapse where they were NOT in denial? that’s the instinct, and that’s what scapegoating is all about.
    there is no better indicator of collapse than rabid anti-semitism.

    the bastion of western civilization has all but given up on itself, and the last standing stronghold is heading steadfast in the same direction.

    I think that they are driven by purely ideological impulses, and accusing them of peddling to their audience…

    these are not mutually exclusive, but rather mutually reinforcing. see my comment about the publisher above.

    do you know of any bastion which ultimately did not?

  28. oao says:

    here’s another indicator of collapse:

    The Rick Warren Experience
    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/33348_The_Rick_Warren_Experience

  29. sshender says:

    that’s how they got to be religious in the first place

    The comic part notwithstanding, it’s usually the other way round. People are brainwashed into a religion from infancy, and only at a later stage, with the development of their reasoning faculties, do we begin to see signs of doubt and disbelief. It truly pains me to see that all too often you get pro-israel advocats putting forward a great case for israel in front of the foreign (secular) media, almost gaining their sympathy, only to deflate it by some “but most important, this land was promised to us by god allmighty” epilogue, which is then equated to the TRUE religios fanaticism eminating from the Muslim side, thus undermining the initial case.

    do you know of any bastion which ultimately did not?

    I think Richard is better suited to answer this one than any of us, but I’m afraid we all know the answer beforehand. Having said that, modern times have brought forward much change and many unprecedented developments which have challenged the common notions of the past, so one is tempted to keep an open mind for the benefit of the doubt. The US is unique and unprecedented in so many ways, that makes the task of predicting its future a highly complex and speculative endeavor.

  30. sshender says:

    What’s your point with the ID story? Yes there are many dumb christsians in the US who oppose science which disproves their fairytale genesis account of creation. But at the same time the the united states has the best universities, research centers, scientists, and ranks first in most parameters in that regard. So I wouldn’t eulogize the US just yet.

    Moreover, while these evangelicals (or other christians) pose a minor threat to scientific progress (stem-cell research notwithstanding), they fare off a lot better than most highly educated post-religious liberals when it comes to recognizing the islamist threat and coming up with ways of dealing with it. Maybe it’s because it takes a religious crackpot to spot another, but that comes in handy in the Islam vs. West world order. Undoubtedly, there are secular (and atheist) people like you and me who take the right side on both things for the right reasons, but unfortunately they are the minority.

  31. oao says:

    The comic part notwithstanding, it’s usually the other way round.

    that’s what i meant, i just did not express it clearly.

    only at a later stage, with the development of their reasoning faculties, do we begin to see signs of doubt and disbelief.

    there are opposite cases (more often in islam these days), but they are indeed rarer. it usually happens as a result of trauma or very clever indoctrination.

    modern times have brought forward much change and many unprecedented developments which have challenged the common notions of the past

    plus ca change…

    human nature is what it is. it does not change drastically and rapidly. and neither does america, claims of exceptionalism notwithstanding, escape basic societal trends and forces.

    What’s your point with the ID story?

    as i said, it’s another indicator of us collapse. pls recall that warren was invited to speak at the inauguration. that such a dangerous moron has any respectability is a clear indication of collapse.

    they fare off a lot better than most highly educated post-religious liberals when it comes to recognizing the islamist threat and coming up with ways of dealing with it.

    not necessarily. and they usually talk a great deal, but not more. and anyway, if the only defense the west has is the religious right (or left), there’s no better indicator of collapse.

  32. oao says:

    interesting and revealing small item on the NYT:

    Crows Are Indeed Smart Birds, But…
    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/04/023309.php

  33. sshender says:

    Actually, oao, I was surprised and relieved at the same time when I saw that LGF has adopted a strong anti-creationist line, since all too often conservatives tend to take the wrong side on that issue. Just look at Glenn Beck. Do you happen to know LGF’s stand on global warming?

  34. oao says:

    Actually, oao, I was surprised and relieved at the same time when I saw that LGF has adopted a strong anti-creationist line, since all too often conservatives tend to take the wrong side on that issue.

    they always took this position. and they’ve been taking lots of nasty flak for it.

    Just look at Glenn Beck.

    Another indicator of collapse.

    Do you happen to know LGF’s stand on global warming?

    I am inferring from your question that their counter position to global warming won’t surprise you pleasantly.

    I am an agnostic on it myself, as there are scientists on both sides of the issue. my instinct is to be suspicious of anything from the left. however, i don’t think it would hurt to behave as if carbon emission is damaging, but not because hypocrites like alibama and algore want to impose it.

  35. oao says:

    looks like it’s no longer just the media, but the US government too:

    Obama Appoints Radical Muslim Apologist To Faith-Based Committee
    http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2009/04/obama-appoints-radical-muslim-apologist.html

  36. oao says:

    sshender,

    Rick Warren Urges Followers To Emulate Hitler Youth
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRctKSeyQ-s&feature=channel

    scary

  37. sshender says:

    The Rick Warren stuff is trully creepy! But then again, I’ve seen worse. Just check out most documentaries (which I’m a big fan of) about the Evangelicals in the US, and this won’t sound so radical. And yet still, even people like the Phelps and Falwell and Robertson are nothing when compared with Islamic zealots.

    I’m aware of this woman that Obama had apointed. I read some of her remarks on varios blogs and it is discomforting as well.

    But let’s be realistic. If anything, the demise of the US will be the result of its slide to the left, not the right. It is its lost of charcter that will most likely signal its demise.

    As for the Global Warming issue, I’ve been where you are right now, and I gotta say that having examined the evidence HONESTLY AND WITHOUT BIAS it is safe to conclude that it’s as real as it gets and humans are the main cause behind it. I was a AGW sceptic up until recently myself, curiously, for the same reasons; the cause was to a large extent championed and turned into an hysteria by the environmentalists who in recent decades have become increasingly politicized towards the left. As a recently disenchanted leftist myself, I was very weary of anything the left persued, let alone with such religious fervor. As a science buff who reads a lot of popular science mags and spends hours on National Geographic and the Discovery Channel, I was in a dilemma because according to these channels the jury has long since been out on this one. Having been familiar with the AGW proponents’ arguments, I decided to see what the skeptics had to offer. Unfortunately, it was hardly convincing and most of it ran dangerously close to creationists’ way of argumentation. Most “alternative” theories, such as the one about solar activity being the culprit, were dessimated and shown to have been tampered with in order to push forward an agenda.

    So to say that there are scientists on both sides is similar to claiming the same thing about the Evolution-Creation debate. Anthropocentric Global Warming is regarded as fact in the wider scientific community just as evolution is.

    I would highly recommend you watch the Climate Wars documentary which deals with just that. I was the turning point for me which made me question the skeptics and look deeper into the evidence.

    Part 1:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8547224522119252436

    Part 2:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1668329593924661115&hl=iw

    Part 3:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4809718812879164013&hl=iw

    Let me know what you think

  38. Cynic says:

    Sophia,

    With regard to #14 about Roger Cohen and the NYT here’s a comment which seems to express it nicely:

    Cohen is the current occupant of the NY Times Op-Ed Jew Critical of Israel chair, formerly held by Anthony Lewis. The religious affiliation required …

  39. oao says:

    FINALLY: ICE to Arrest Ivan the Terrible/Nazi Demjanjuk for Deportation, Today; Goebbels of Our Time (Hannity Bud Buchanan) Upset
    http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2009/04/finally_ice_to.html

  40. Eliyahu says:

    The UK has an intensely anti-Israel policy. That includes tony blair, whom the British themselves call Tony Phoney.
    Britain has had an anti-Jewish policy since about 1920, although at that time there were several somewhat conflicting policies. Now the policy in the British govt is unified against Israel.
    See link:

    http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2009/04/tony-blair-supports-hamas-officially.html

    To see how British “news” media are guided, as in a totalitarian state, read the Guardian and its Comment Is Free blog. I know from personal experience that moderately expressed, intelligent and informative comments are routinely deleted. For more on British deception as a character trait, at least among the upper levels of govt there, consider how Damian McBride, a Labour politician close to Gordon Brown, invented scandals and planted them in the press in order to discredit the opposition Conservative Party. Then, Jacqui Smith, a minister of state, one of those insufferably self-righteous, hypocritical & holier-than-thou [prechi-precha] UK politicians, was found to be charging to her expense account pornographic films that her husband had ordered. Now this scandal also shows her stinginess since the rental fees for the films were just a few pounds.

  41. Cynic says:

    Eliyahu,

    The UK has an intensely anti-Israel policy.

    The UK has something about Jews not just Israel as one can see from a superficial report about an aged film producer dying
    Carry On producer Peter Rogers dead at 95
    where on describing some of his films/movies they identify the actors and lo and behold the only one to be labeled by his religion
    with James, a South African Jew reborn as an archetypal music hall.

    Now what is it that one must be advised/beware a Jew is on hand?
    But that was,is and will be the way of the discriminating class and their attitude to those they look down on and are permitted to disparage by singling them out.

  42. Eliyahu says:

    Cynic, by the way, The New Republic has an opinion piece on British Judeophobia by a British Jewish writer, Howard Jacobson. He mentions that Philip Roth, the novelist, had pointed to UK Judeophobia 20 years ago.

  43. Cynic says:

    Eliyahu,

    I don’t know why but the link did not appear so here goes; another attempt:

    Carry On producer Peter Rogers dead at 95

    A lot of their hypocrisy and projection came our way in the 50s and 60s. A lot of their officials and clerics were just plain nasty.
    I suppose experiencing the general ignorance of RN sailors on shore leave who happened to pass a Jewish owned hotel during Passover and who questioned us as to how those ordinary looking people could be Jews should have been a pointer of what to expect from a class ridden society.
    My friends and I were too stunned to ask them what they imagined Jews to look like.

    Something about a society where the upper class rid themselves of their spawn for lengthy periods by sending them to boarding schools made me think of the behaviour of the denatured dairy cows leaving their just born calves to be attended by the humans.
    (Such a contrast to those of the “lower order” beef producing cows – as protective as one could imagine.)

  44. Eliyahu says:

    Cynic, you must have noticed that Her Majesty’s Govt announced [as far as I know] unqualified and unreserved participation in that massive act of international hypocrisy called the Durban II conference in Geneva. Well, Gordon Brown, Jacqui Smith, ex-pm Tony Blair and other worthies and not so worthies ought to feel quite at home in Geneva with all the 8th century jihadists and racists. See on my blog the posts on Tony, Jacqui, and bbc “reporter” Jeremy Bowen.

  45. oao says:

    Something about a society where the upper class rid themselves of their spawn for lengthy periods by sending them to boarding schools made me think of the behaviour of the denatured dairy cows leaving their just born calves to be attended by the humans.

    and despite all the protestations that this is the secularity of the system that produces such abominations as current UK, that is nonsense. it is still part and parcel of the judaeo-christian tradition, whether its influence is now implicit and invisible rather than obvious and formal. in fact much of this class society was worse during the less secular times and secularity has actually improved things on the margins. there is nothing in the crap that is today’s UK that is not deeply rooted in J-C in unconscious ways.

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