Rachel Corrie, Again

I have not posted for a long while because I’m madly trying to get my manuscript to the editor by the end of the month, and I much appreciate the fascinating conversations that are taking place in the comment section. Here’s a topic to discuss:

The Upcoming Rachel Corrie Trial: Go After Her Real Killers
An open letter to Rachel Corrie’s parents from an Israeli parent. (Related: And don’t miss Ronald Radosh: A Note to Israel: Try Rachel Corrie’s Accusers.)

March 9, 2010 – by Lenny Ben-David

Jerusalem — Craig and Cindy Corrie, I welcome you to Israel where, I understand, you plan to bring a civil suit before an Israeli court on March 10 “to put on public record,” the British Guardian wrote, “the events that led to [your] daughter Rachel’s death in March 2003.”

I thank God for the well-being of my children and grandchildren, and I cannot imagine the pain and anger you feel over the loss of your daughter, Rachel.

My sons have served as combat soldiers, and may have actually fought on the very ground where your daughter died. The area was laced with tunnels to smuggle weapons and explosives for use against Israelis. My children are Israelis who ride in buses and eat in pizzerias, and by the grace of God they have been spared attacks by the suicide bombers your daughter championed.

Some may see the irony in your using the courts and the free press of Israel in your attempt to pursue and denounce the nation your daughter loathed. I see the tragedy in your allying with the International Solidarity Movement — the very people and organization who led and, in a sense, really pushed Rachel to her death.

According to news accounts, Israel will permit four of Corrie’s colleagues from the International Solidarity Movement (ISM) to enter Israel to give testimony on what occurred that day. Actually, I believe it’s a good decision to permit the four into Israel’s jurisdiction where the ISM members could and should be arrested for reckless endangerment, fraud, manslaughter, aiding terrorists, and a host of other charges. The public may also discover who paid for your lawsuit and the expenses of bringing you and ISM witnesses to Israel.

Read the rest, leave comments there, and here.

Personally, I think the big target here should be the ISM, an organization that embodies the moral corruption of the radical left in the 21st century.

102 Responses to Rachel Corrie, Again

  1. sshender says:

    Ben-Dror Yemini’s contribution to the subject here:


    I can translate if y’all ask nicely :)

    Here’s a tanslation of an excerpt from Yemini’s Maariv Sofshahvua article:

    “Maariv” got hold of the information that the “Uvda” investigative program dealing with the death of Rachel Corrie is raising many question marks. According to these sources, the program’s staff was provided with contravercial material, which they in turn chose to ignore. In the end, as was predicted, the ISM activists used the Uvda film to “prove” Israel’s crimes to US congressmen. So we initiated our own investigation. We approached the staff at Uvda and asked to purchase the full material, whatever the price may be, to probe deeper and see if the accusations stand up. Alas, to our surprise, the Uvda staff declined our inquiry. This probably means that they have something to hide. Who knows. It might have just been another propaganda movie made under the guise of legitimate investigative journalism. But silencing us won’t do the trick. A formal complaint has been filed with Israel’s second broadcasting network responsible for Uvda. In other words, to be continued….

  2. sshender says:


    Richard, Yemini explicitly mentions yourself when discussing the Al-Durah incident and its dubious credibility. Slowly but surely, the mainstream Israeli public, which for lack of interest and/or comprehension of English has been shunned from this topic, is getting exposed to the AL-Durah fabrication.

  3. sshender says:


    Glad to have you back, Richard.

  4. Michelle Schatzman says:

    (1) Best wishes for the success of your book, Richard!

    (2) My analysis is that the contemporary left is split in two:

    – human rights
    – anticolonialism

    The trick is that the anticolonialist left is riding the human rights left, and in fact hijacking it.

    There are many ways to do this, and I’m going to enumerate some:

    Antiracims has become in some quarters a cover for rabid anti-Israel opinion, if not genuine antisemitism. Simple logic here: as Israel is not respecting many UM decisions and is not yielding to the demands of Palestinians (irrespective of the contents of the demands, of course), it means that Israel is a racist state. I don’t know yet exactly who voted in the European parliament to support the Goldstone report, but I’m betting that the argument which won is exactly the one I’ve been describing.

    Confusion of religious or philosophical statements with racial or ethnic identities. The anticolonialist left found that, since the muslims are the most oppressed people on earth, Islam is the religion of the oppressed, and therefore, this part of the left has to ally with the muslims and possibly the islamists, because they are defiending the same interests. And whoever disagrees with this alliance is a racist, who must be at least silenced.

    Double standards regarding testimonies. One must a priori believe any statement by an oppressed muslim whose skin is not of the palest possible hue. One must a priori be skeptical of a statement by a non muslim whose skin is, or is not of the palest hue, with possibly a few exceptions for black Africans or African-Americans, but christianity, being the religion of the colonialist oppressors is definitely a minus.

    I could go on and on. It is remarkable to observe how many of these “idées reçues” are at the heart of the leftist discourse these days, since it seems that the “anticolonialist” left has won over the “human rights” left, i.e. the left which would consider particular situations and not make the kind of outlandish generalizations I just described.

    Right now, the left is very ill. The present victory of the “anticolonialists” has considerably depleted the ranks of the left among all western industrialized countries. It is plain that the anticolonialist left is not interested in defending the rights of the poorer section of society, and it is not intrested in global progress against injustice. It is fixated in its crazy anti-american and anti-israeli politics, and doesn’t give a damn about concrete questions, and even less about concrete answers such as “how do we get out of the economic crisis? what do we do with the chinese and indian industrial competition? what do we do about education, culture and so on, beyond asking for more money and more employment, which is not going to some any time soon?”

    The anticolonialist left is entirely moved by KGB memes. Though I keep being surprised by this sort of behavior, now I come to expect it.

  5. Michelle Schatzman says:

    Correction at the end of the penultimate paragraph:

    “which is not going to come any time soon”

  6. E.G. says:

    Here’s the full paragraph from B-D Yemini’s article:

    Since her death, Rachel Corrie fed a whole industry that mounted commemorative enterprises. Like Mohamad al-Dura, Rachel turned into a symbol. In both cases it’s a libel. Al-Dura, as it’s being clarified, is yet another performance of Pallywood (a concept coined by Prof. Richard Landes, on the staged Hollywoodian effect of Palestinian propaganda).

  7. IDF footage leading up to the moment that Rachel Corrie was run-over and killed by a D-9 bulldozer.


  8. E.G. says:


    Before my reply to your #4, an O/T a propos an earlier discussion.

  9. E.G. says:

    Caroline Glick:
    March of the Red-Green brigades

    Whether the Left recognizes the significance of its actions or not, it is time that it be held as accountable for its defense of jihad.

  10. E.G. says:

    Corrie’s sister to Haaretz: U.S. encouraged family to sue Israel

    A (translated to Hebrew) letter of her or her cousin also appeared in Ma’ariv, in reply to Ben-Dror Yemini’s article.

  11. obsy says:

    “We knew there was a risk,” Smith said, “but we also knew it never happened in the two years that we (the ISM) have been working here. I knew we take lots of precautions so that it doesn’t happen, that if it did happen it would have to be an intentional act by a soldier, in which case it would bring a lot of publicity and significance to the cause.”

    That girl stepped in front of a bulldozer in a terror zone!
    What kind of precautions are these?
    She probably thought until the last moment that there is some kind of natural law that bulldozers always stop if somebody stands in front of them. Those kids are talked into a conflict that they don’t understand. I doubt that they really want to become Martyrs.

    If she had been one of those other leftists (that Michelle mentioned) who cared more about social conflicts, the “same” action (in a different situation) at home might have done something good and she would still be alive.

    Alas, not understanding the conflict is was drives those movements.

  12. Cynic says:


    The anticolonialist left found that, since the muslims are the most oppressed people on earth, Islam is the religion of the oppressed,
    and did not stop to find that the implementation of Islam through Sharia Law as defined in the Qur’an, etc., is the oppressing factor permitting excesses In the Name of its Father?

    No wonder in the 21st Century “Most of the people can be fooled Most of the time”.

    WRT Human Rights I am of the opinion, as I’ve mentioned before, that it depends on which human and what rights.
    Watching the plight of the Darfurians, as they attempt to get to freedom, maltreated by the Egyptians once they enter that territory, shot to pieces attempting to cross Sinai and for some the aligning of events permitting the entry into Israel to provide the first of their “rights”, one realizes that Human Rights is just a political/ideological cliché.
    If there were no Israelis involved nobody would bat an eye lid.

    As for racism, there’s the likes of Chris Matthews (MANBC), on accompanying Biden to Israel, to provide the facts who “apparently” (can’t be too careful in interviews these days) exclaimed that Israelis don’t like Obama because he is a Blackman to Ethan Bronner.
    {Oh boy, especially since Bronner’s son serves in the IDF}
    Chris Matthews: Yeah, There’s Some Racism Involved In Why Israelis Don’t Like Obama.

    These clowns, the Progressive Fascist Liberal Left (PiFFL), have an agenda to bash something/someone and choose a stick accordingly – pick a cliché is the name of the game.

  13. Cynic says:


    The whole idea behind ISM and its ilk is provocation and just as Hamas seeks propaganda in its use of individuals so do these organizations.
    The routine “protests” against the Fence at Bilin is an example.

    For the record, and we published links to the fauxtography in previous posts here’s an example of what ISM presented as proof
    Videos: How Rachel Corrie really died

  14. E.G. says:

    Steven Plaut’s letter to the Corries (with many links):

  15. Cynic says:


    Just an OT link before we are called to order :-)
    The World According to Student Bloopers

    The First World War, caused by the assignation of the Arch-Duck by a surf, ushered in a new error in the anals of human history.

    Did this one go on to write for the media?

  16. obsy says:


    then there probably won’t be many on-topic comments. Most recent stables article about Rachel Corrie:

    As for student bloopers history:
    Better hope that nobody finds out what Louis Pasteur’s cure for rabbis is. And I’m glad that the tools for circumcision have improved over the centuries!
    And, man, Cyrus McCormick must have had even more problems with his wife than John Milton.

  17. E.G. says:


    This one surely did go on to write for the media:

    The government of Athens was democratic because people took the law into their own hands.

  18. Eliyahu says:

    Michelle, there is another kind of Left that you didn’t mention. That’s the Left that’s subsidized [subventionnee] by governments. Read the site of NGO Monitor. You’ll see how many millions of euros the dear old European Onion pays to support Arab Nazi propaganda in the palestinian authority and in Hamastan.

    Now, as to human shield. I think we need a new concept. The unarmed combatant. Willing human shields, voluntary human shields are combatants not against their will but in accord with their will. A shield is a weapon after all. Not carrying a weapon such as a rifle, pistol, RPG, simply makes them a different kind of combatant. They are combatants and should not be considered “protected persons” under the law of war.

    A propos the more up to date issue of poor Hilary and Obama being insulted by Israel, here are some comments on Hill and Joe Biden and Axelrod’s hypocrisy.


  19. E.G. says:


    My theory (which is not mine in fact but of a social psych. school’s) is that of an “active minority influence”. Basically, it deals with how a dissident minority can exert influence over a dominant majority and its consensus.
    The necessary requirements are getting acknowledged as a legitimate minority, being active (i.e., frequently voicing opinions – roughly, getting air-time by all means), and dispatching coherent/consistent messages.

    Thus, by introducing debate, divergence, questioning, an active minority introduces alternatives never considered by the majority. Such processes can have beneficial (e.g., Galileo, Kepler et alii.) or detrimental (e.g., Lenin) consequences. But, whatever they are and how such consequences are considered, change is introduced.

  20. Lorenz Gude says:

    Thanks Michelle, I have so much trouble with my gorge rising in response to both the human rights and anti colonial left that I have missed that one may be dominating the other. But yes I can see how one is a principled do-gooder power play and the other is mostly just a power play. The dominance of the anti colonialist left would explain why my leftist women friends sent me email for years protesting the treatment of women in Afghanistan suddenly went silent when they US invaded. I sensed it was their priorities but didn’t quite put it together. I agree the left isn’t just wrong about this or that – it is sick. And by sick I mean it is so much in the thrall of its own failed ideology that it is unconsciously destroying itself and endangering Western Civilization. Even with a charming and charismatic leader like Obama at the helm, the rate of destruction even takes my breath away.

  21. Michelle Schatzman says:


    I loved your O/T. Last year, when things were, if not hot, at least warm, I tried to explain in an assembly of my department that one of the aims of the movement should be to negotiate better conditions for (long list). And I was beaten by an enormous majority. Nevertheless, the negotiation took place, and the initial aims of the movement were far from being satisfied. I thought we were back to the situation of “all or nothing”, which is a sure recipe for getting beaten, unless it is Hamas which is defending it.

    In fact, this is a good intro to the main subject. I write as a person who was on the left for most of her life, and got mugged by reality in the late nineties and the early noughts. For a long time, I thought that the left was in favor of justice, social progress and democracy. I thought that it was all for fairness and common decency. When in the thick of responsibillities, I found out that things were different.

    When I found out that the politics of many of my colleagues had more to do with defending the iron rice bowl than the progress of science. When I found out that those who ask for solidarity are the ones who are not willing to extend it, and they asked me to cover their inefficiency and their downright abuse of public resources in the name of solidarity. When I found that, more than justice for everybody, most militants of peace in the middle-east were hiding their propalestinian fanatic partisanship behind nice words. When I found out that part of the atheistic and marxist extreme-left did not disdain an alliance with the islamists, acording to the old Lenin saying about the sociodemocrats: “We support them as the rope supports the hanged man” – but these leftist do *not* realize that they are the ones being supported in the Leninist sense of the term.

    I could make a looooooooong list, and for Cynic, I am fully aware that the notion of “human rights” is ill-defined.

    In my #4 post, I was just trying to give a sweet-and-sour description of the state of the left, as I see it today.

    Today is the day after the first round of the regional elections in France. For once, I did not vote: I was away in the beautiful city of Prague for one week, and did not take the time to organize a proxy vote, my plane landing too late for me to reach the voting booth on time.

    If I had voted, I would have been terribly embarrassed. When I will vote next sunday, I will be almost as much embarrassed. The left has been managing the region for the last 6 years. The only aspect of direct concern for me is the way they handle support for research, and unfortunately, what they came up with was much more complicated and inefficient than what the right did before.

    Besides that, I cannot vote for the populist xenophobes of the Front National who, right now, hate Arabs more than Jews – but I just don’t hate Arabs, I am just against too much power of islam in France, and I suspect that most so-called Arabs in France agree to that.

    I don’t want to vote for the UMP (Sarkozy’s party), because of the utter silliness of Sarkozy’s political action.

    I don’t want to vote for the probable alliance of the socialists, the communists and the greens, because the list includes too many antidemocracy operatives.

    I feel compelled to vote, in order to decrease the proportion of votes (and hence of elected reginal representatives) that the Front National will get.

    @#$%?!!*&, as they used to print in cartoons, when they would only print decent language.

    6 days to decide what to do… and it is not only the left, which is sick. I guess that the right is not in such a good shape either!

  22. obsy says:


    Egypt canceled the inauguration of a restored synagogue on Sunday citing objections to Israel’s treatment of Muslims in the occupied territories as well as alleged excesses during an earlier ceremony.


    So if Israel does something that is not to the taste of Egypt, that is a reason to punish Egyptian Jews?
    Hey, it’s not Antisemitism ― only Antizionism.

    Well, have a look at the second reason:

    “This cancellation comes after what happened during the inauguration by the Jewish community who engaged in activities considered provocative to the feelings of hundreds of millions of Muslims around the world, including dancing and drinking alcohol,” Hawass said in the statement.

    Does Israel punish Israeli Muslims for partying?
    Any Human Rights guy interested?
    Seems like the Beastie Boys where right:
    You got to fight
    for your right
    to party!

  23. Michelle Schatzman says:


    how many juice left in Cairo? or in the whole of Egypt?

    And in any case, the juice have no right to party. And even less, if it should cause the slightest sorrow to any muslim in the world, mind you.

    And I won’t repeat myself.

  24. obsy says:


    Erdogan gets an $200,000 award from the UN:


    I don’t even care about the bitter irony of this special award. Somebody who actively transforms a secular state into an Islamic theocracy should be punished ― not praised.

  25. Michelle Schatzman says:


    How come you do not understand that, for the majority of the UN, a theocratic state is much better than a secular state, especially if this is a muslim theocratic state? Come on, can’t you recognize who is calling the shots?

    Theis is a simple arithmetic: there are 192 states in the UNO, 57 of which belong to the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC). There are many states who do not belong to this organization, but whose vote can be bought, because they are poor, undemocratic, and corrupt.

    How expensive is it to buy the vote of Nauru? Fidji? Kiribati? Madagascar? Palaos? Suriname? Botswana? Zimbabwe? Tonga?

    Buy some votes, find some states who have political reasons to please the states from OIC, and a few more who don’t want to displease the OIC and will abstain, and that’s it. Get 20 to abstain, the majority is just 87, meaning buy 15 and frighten 15 more.

    I am surprised by your surprise.

  26. Cynic says:


    I thought that you would have asked if that quote implied the start of a new dark age.

  27. Cynic says:


    WRT the link in #18 here’s a piece by Moshe Dann
    A blessing in disguise

    Supporters of Israel should rejoice that Biden and Clinton have emerged from Obama’s closet hatred of Israel. Their wild attack, as deadly as it seemed initially, however, did little or no damage. It clears the way for a robust Israeli response, one that will set the course of Israeli policy and the guidelines of future discussions.
    PM Netanyahu now has the opportunity to defend Israel’s position, not only on Jerusalem, but other issues of Israeli sovereignty that have been disputed. This includes the right to decide on what Jewish heritage sites

    Will he take advantage and Not let a crisis go to waste?

  28. Cynic says:


    Basically, it deals with how a dissident minority can exert influence over a dominant majority and its consensus.

    and here’s an example from one side of the spectrum of dissident minorities:
    The Jihadi Feels Persecuted—His Aggression is Self-Defense

    Or was it the fact that Campbell and Kaufman were documenting what Muslims were doing on American public property that bothered him?
    Surely, that’s provocation enough. Alhalabi kept finger pointing. He had people block Campbell’s camera. He kept advancing and “swatting at” Campbell’s camera. He had an associate take his camera and shove it up close into Campbell’s face. He “punched” at Campbell’s camera and face. According to Campbell, Alhalabi “physically pushed and shoved me.” He had previously done the same thing to Kaufman.
    The police finally asked Campbell and Kaufman—not Alhalabi– to leave. Not because they’d “done anything wrong” but because, said the officer, “your presence is offensive to this group. We must tell you to leave to keep the peace.” And, the local media (WTXL-TV) which promised to cover what had happened, backed down. They interviewed Campbell and Kaufman but, according to Campbell, after promising to run the interview, never did so.

  29. Cynic says:


    @#$%?!!*&, as they used to print in cartoons

    Should it not be @#$%?!*&*! or am I mixing up French and English? :-)

    Voting has become a farce nowadays and democracy is not the correct word (depending on its definition :<??*#*#$$$$) to describe a process which does not permit one to subscribe to the polity one desires but only to make choices between lesser and greater evils.

  30. Cynic says:


    Here’s a report of Hamas breaking up a wedding party.
    Scroll down roughly halfway for the video.
    In the video below, it’s for daring to sing in public.

    Watch as Hamas shows up and shoots up a wedding party, killing the groom.

    They also mention France 2, so this is sort of on topic,

    Now French Public TV channel 2 (also known as French state-run media) has been caught doctoring the news, so to speak, by showing photos of Palestinians who it claimed were victims of present Israeli Air Force attacks. However, unfortunately for Israel-hating Frenchmen everywhere, it eventually came to light that the station had used photos from 2005 of Palestinians killed by Hamas, when a truck smuggling explosives suddenly…exploded killing several bystanders.

  31. Daniel Bielak says:

    I think that many Arab Israeli people would be Jewish Israeli people’s, and Jewish people’s, closest, and most natural, friends, and healing, and protecting, helpers, if Jewish people began, in a concerted effort, to seek them out, and join in friendship with, and common destiny with, and in common cause with, them.

    “For Israel’s Arabs It Is Not Apartheid”, by Khaled Abu Toameh

  32. Daniel Bielak says:

    “Khaled Abu Toameh in Ottawa March 3 2010”, (Video with Audio only), Khaled Abu Toameh talks about facts of the sensationalistic, opportunistic anti-Jewish anti-Israeli propaganda campaign by Western journalists against Israel and about facts of the nature of PLO-Fatah-PA and Hamas. Khaled Abu Toameh is a Muslim Arab-Israeli journalist.

  33. Daniel Bielak says:

    “What Does “Pro-Palestinian” Really Mean?”, by Khaled Abu Toameh

    “Wanted: Palestinian “Peace Now” Movement”, by Khaled Abu Toameh

    “Israeli Arabs: Not “Fifth Column””, by Khaled Abu Toameh

  34. E.G. says:

    Cynic #28

    Well, you got the idea. But it would have worked less quickly and efficiently, had the Moslems not coalesced with the Left.

  35. E.G. says:


    I fail to see how the anti-Colonialists/Imperialists are piggybacking the Human Rightists, and also the 2 sections’ differential (?) attitude towards racism.

    I do see the Left as a very fragmented “movement” (too often involved in “each for himself” battles), still delivering the great discourse about collective well-being and equity etc. A good example is the numerous scandals in GB Labour.

  36. E.G. says:

    And with all your more or less O/T – nothing about this?
    ‘Hamas used kids as human shields’

    Exclusive: New research report highlights extensive use of civilians during Gaza op.

  37. obsy says:


    if your only aim is to block the Front National, randomize. And stick to the first result!
    (There is nothing more fair than that. You also can adjust the weights ― beforehand.)

    After all, the difference between the next week and the time before is mainly the election campaign. When you are completely undecided, it is a bad idea to make a choice while there is a lot of political spin in the back of your mind. This would likely reward the most skillful liar.

  38. E.G. says:


    Aren’t you in the area of that Zionist “racist” ex-Socialist?

  39. E.G. says:

    Those à!§@&”%* filters!
    And I didn’t even post a link!

  40. obsy says:


    There is something terribly wrong with Muslims. With secular Muslims as well as with religious Muslims. It is socially not allowable for them to be pro-Israeli. I guess, for them, this is as being pro child abuse is for us.

    You can have a friendship with a Muslim for friendship’s sake, but I doubt it would make him view Israel positive. (Unless he is one of the very few.)

    If you were a friend of a child abuser, would that make you see child abuse positive? (rhetorical question)
    I don’t know if my comparison is a good one. I hope though, that you understand that some things are VERY different in Muslim communities. Alas, one of those things is about what is socially acceptable to think of Israel.
    I heard Albanian Muslims and the Druze are different.

    A comparison with being pro-gay hundred years ago might have been better. I don’t know. But that would have exchanged one unknown for another.

  41. Michelle Schatzman says:


    here are a few examples of piggybacking by the anticolonialist left (or should I write “left”?).

    a. the left allied with the islamists obviously forgets about the situation of female members of mankind in the countries governed by said islamists. The part of the left which allies itself with the islamists is anticolonialist, and argues tht since islam is the religion of the poors and so on and so forth. The classical feminists are in line with a notion of human rights (and I was careful not to say rights of man, mind you!) I’d say that the classical feminists don’t have the upper hand, right now.

    b. last spring, there was an interesting conflict where a scientist from CNRS insulted the man in charge of security and protection in CNRS, “le haut fonctionnaire de défense” by writing that this security man was persecuting him as the Jews and the Righteous among the Nations during WWII. In fact, the scientist is a great friend of the islamists, and he wrote a book and many articles to explain that the islamists are very good people, who should absolutely not be criticized for being faithful to their beliefs. In the course of his research he got interested in the evaluation of the impact of scientists coming from North Africa on the french system of research. So he sent out a questionnaire, selecting his targets on the base of their family names. Some people protested violently against the CNRS, because the questionnaire read more like police than science. I should add that, since the arab name of Jews can be identical to the arab name of Muslims, some Jews received the capo d’opera, and reacted.

    The questionnaire was, of course, entirely illegal according to the french laws on privacy and computer treatment of personal information.

    The security man has a department in charge of checking that nothing illegal comes out of CNRS. Instead of letting Mr Cop-scientist get the kind of reward he deserved – probably a serious fine and an end to his career as a public servant – tried to help and to move the questionnaire in the right direction. This is the persecution for which he was attacked.

    Until now, it is just a story between an outlier and an agent of public order. That the outlier insults the agent of public order is common and should not make the case of the outlier easier to defend. So the administration of CNRS sent Mr Cop-scientist before the disciplinary committee of CNRs (half administration and half unions).

    What is interesting is that Mr Cop-scientist found a few thousand people (les intellectuels) to sign a petition supporting him against the big bad security man. So, here again, we have a win of the “anticolonialist” Mr Cop-scientist and a few thousand buddies, against the person in charge of protecting privacy and legality, i.e. rights of man (and I am definite that Mr Security is not on the right – I talked to him). The unions also defended the rights of Mr Cop-scientist, against the protection of privacy and legality.

    c. The majority attitude in France towards Israel and the muslim countries is that Israel is the bad colonialist and ally of the imperialist US, while the islamist country are poor (???), oppressed, etc… once again, an obvious victory of the anticolonialists over the human rights crowd.

    I coudl go on and on… is this situation particular to France? I don’t think so.

  42. Michelle Schatzman says:


    I like your advice! very game-theoretical! Excellent solution! Thank you very much. By chance, is John von Neumann one of your heroes?

  43. E.G. says:

    Thanks Michelle,

    Despite the examples, I still don’t see the “rule”. There’s something I’m missing.
    Are you arguing that anti-Colonialists invert and abuse anti-racism laws and conventions? And that they hack the Human Rights discourse while doing so?

  44. E.G. says:

    Michelle and obsy,

    I bet on Bob Aumann!

  45. Joanne says:

    Here are a few arguments as to why this open letter will fail to sway Craig and Cindy Corrie:

    I. One reason is the sentence: “I thank God for the well-being of my children and grandchildren, and I cannot imagine the pain and anger you feel over the loss of your daughter, Rachel.”

    It is obviously well-meant, and intended to show that the author feels for Rachel’s parents, and appreciates the depth of their loss. However, I know from experience that this kind of consolation only sticks the knife in and turns it. So the author’s conciliatory sentences will definitely not ingratiate him with the Corries.

    Some years back, I lost my mother and both my brothers within two years, and thus my entire nuclear family was gone (my father had died earlier, I never married). I cringed when people said how they could never imagine being so alone in the world, with no family, how they could never imagine losing their parents AND all their numerous siblings, and how weird and horrible it must be for me, and so on, and so on. All well meant, but it only served to make me more scared and more depressed.

    II. The second reason is that, given that their daughter has died, the last thing Craig and Cindy Corrie want to hear is that she died in vain.

    They won’t want to accept that she was manipulated, or even worse, that she was a total fool who died gratuitously. That would be especially hard to handle. My guess is that they’ll take whatever comfort they can wherever they can find it. If a death has at least some meaning or serves some good purpose, then it is less painful to contemplate. Thus, it is more comforting for them to believe that Rachel’s cause was a worthy one.

    III. They say that a person dies twice: once when he actually dies and again when he is forgotten. Given that Rachel’s name and image are so out there, all over the place, the parents can have the subconscious feeling, however illusory, that their daughter is somehow still out there.

    I’d bet that the Corries were never pro-Israel, but were probably not actively pro-Palestinian, either. However, taking up the Palestinian cause has probably provided them with a link to their daughter via a community that knew their daughter and appreciated her, or at the very least, remembers her.

    IV. Being involved in Rachel’s work probably also gives the Corries a sense of connection to her. After the death of a family member, there is still a sense of his or her being there. The last conversations you had with him or her are still fairly recent. For instance, there were times when I’d say, “You know, my brother Paul was telling me the same thing…” But as time goes by, the memories get older, the last things said or done together recede further into the past.

    When you still have to do things on your dead loved one’s behalf–like being a trustee of a will or taking care of a house or other possessions–then there is still a sense of connection. But when those duties are behind you, and there is little to do, there is little to hang onto. Memories, of course. There are those. But f there is something you can DO, especially something that’s a continuation of the deceased’s projects or something that would be close to the deceased’s heart…it does make things easier to take.

    I obviously don’t agree with Rachel Corrie’s politics, and I think that her political beatification is done out of a weird mix of naivete and cynicism. But, in gauging the reaction of Rachel Corrie’s parents, you have to remember that they are her parents, and that they may be reacting not as ideologues, but as parents.

  46. E.G. says:


    I agree with you.

    Except about this:

    provided them with a link to their daughter via a community that knew their daughter and appreciated her, or at the very least, remembers her.

    They fail to see that that community exploited their daughter, and even more her death. I don’t know how useful she was alive. But dead – she’s serving them best.

  47. Joanne says:

    Yes, I see your point, E.G.

    I was even thinking that when I wrote it. The Palestinian activists pretend to have valued her, but probably didn’t much, except in seeing her as cannon fodder. Afterward, those who celebrate her probably never knew her at all, and only value her as a symbol.

    Suddenly, her history, her beliefs, and even her diary writings become of intense interest to everyone.

  48. Daniel Bielak says:


    I understand what you are saying.

    What is the case is that over 70 years of intense Nazi-influenced, “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”-Jewish-conspiracy-theory-based, anti-Jewish anti-Israel propaganda in Muslim societies in the Middle East, and several decades of, comparatively much less grotesque, and much more subtle, and more sophisticated, and very effecting, and very effectual, anti-Israeli propaganda from the media of, and from the academic institutions of, Western countries, have had effect.

    I am aware of the anti-Jewish nature of (and the anti-adherents-of-all-non-Muslim-religions nature of) orthodox Islam, and of, to degrees varying among Muslim societies and varying between different times in history, of the culture of Muslim societies in the Middle-East.

    (However, I think that, for a brief period of time, which, I think, maybe, may have been several decades, before the beginning of the Islamic-Supremacist modern political movement that began in the 1920’s, Muslim societies in the Middle East were becoming more healthy, and were becoming more politically democratic.)

    I am aware of the bigoted views about, and antipathy toward, Israel and Jewish people, that are a common and prevalent part of Muslim societies today.

    I am aware of the bigoted stigma about Israel that exists among even, I think, the majority of secular (non Islamic-Supremacist) Muslim people in the world today.

    However, I think that there may be many secular (non Islamic-Supremacist) Muslim Arab-Israeli people who accept Israel as the country of the Jewish people and who want to feel that they are fully accepted members of Israeli society, and I think that many secular (non Islamic-Supremacist) Muslim Arab-Israeli people would be open to joining together with Jewish Israeli people in friendship, and I think that some, and maybe, many, secular (non Islamic-Supremacist) Muslim Arab-Israeli people would like to join together with Jewish-Israeli people in friendship.

  49. M.M. says:

    Joanne – well said.

    No letter like this could touch Rachel Corrie’s parents. Since in her death she serves the Palestinian activists much better than ever alive, these same people are probably treating her bereft parents with warmth and encouragement, and lauding their daughter’s praises. To take a step back and see that these people were in actuality largely responsible for what happened to Rachel would require more detachment, intellectual honesty and courage than many people possess in their time of grief, especially when such an admission would perforce imply their daughter was at best a puppet, if not a fool.

  50. Michelle Schatzman says:


    in your #42, you said what I think is happening much better than me. It is in fact the core of the anti-israel propaganda: explain that Israel must disappear, because it is *the* racist state, that discriminates against non-jews through its laws, such as the law of return, or the fact that most non-Jews don’t serve in the army.

    Of course, the people who use this kind of argument happily forget that lots of Jews don’t serve, and that it is possible to immigrate to Israel even as a non-Jew, but let’s not get our theory confused by facts.

    Another symptom of the victory of the anticolonialists is the more or less explicit support on the left for Hamas and Fatah: they are anticolonialist, since Israel is a colonial state, and who cares that Hamas is trampling over all human rights in Gaza, or Fatah, though trampling less on human rights in the west bank, is utterly corrupt and practics incitement as well as Hamas? The simple fact that they fight against the arch-villain, Israel, makes them holy.

    The support for boundless immigration in Europe comes from the same idea: they come from countries, which were subject to European colonial rule, so they have all the rights from birth, including the right of not integrating into the countries which host them, entering and staying illegally and so on. And if this behavior tramples over the human rights of the people who already reside in Europe, then, too bad: theirs is a higher right. I am saying this in memory of three out of my four grand-parents, who were immigrants, and integrated into French society, though it was much more antisemitic in the years 1905-1935 than it is now.

  51. Michelle Schatzman says:


    I completely share the opinion of E.G.’s #45.

  52. Cynic says:


    #42 Are you arguing that anti-Colonialists invert and abuse anti-racism laws and conventions? And that they hack the Human Rights discourse while doing so?

    From the way I read and understand the argument those people reduce laws, conventions, discourse etc., to clichés, which in some cases they choose specifically to bludgeon the opposition, and in others they fill the chambers of a revolver and play a sort of Russian Roulette …..
    Sort of like what obsy suggested about choosing a party to vote for?

  53. Cynic says:


    Thus, it is more comforting for them to believe that Rachel’s cause was a worthy one.

    There are times when one has to face reality.
    One can still love a person even if that person did something in life that ended in tragedy.
    If parents cannot admit that their offspring are capable of bad behaviour or making bad decisions in life then it should not be demanded of others to empathize with the parent’s grief especially when some of the others have been harmed by that child’s actions.

    As time goes on the stress of denial will tell and most probably embitter their lives.

    I know that many of us were grief stricken with the deaths of the two little Ethiopian children killed in Sderot by Arab rockets and our hearts went out to the family, but as for RC knowing what we do there is little sympathy.

  54. Cynic says:


    There are two aspects to consider:
    Firstly one must understand the tribal/clan system whereby the inhabitants of a village or town adhere to the rules.
    No matter how secular they are sociologically speaking, because that is impossible from the religious standpoint where they would be classified as apostates and subject to all sorts of “retribution”,
    the other inhabitants would maintain a tight control for the existence and reasons of a particular relationship.
    One could get some idea from viewing the behaviour in English villages, but only much more intrusive in this case.
    Even for those Arabs not given to too much religiosity the attitude towards the infidel is one of using and disposing in the material sense, so they go cruising in Jewish or Christian areas, for in their heads that’s where the ‘whores’ are. There is no respect, generally, for kafirs whatsoever and a case of cognitive egocentrism is a big mistake to be made.
    In some cases if a friendship came to exist it would be maintained outside in some other area distanced from the peering eyes and gossips; it being a lot safer.
    I have seen the hurt from some kibbutz members who for years went and drank coffee and ate whatever with Ahmad in his home, thinking how great the friendship was only to get a sort of comeuppance when, in one particular case back in 2003, the US invaded Iraq.

    Secondly from the other side given their knowledge of the other’s culture Israeli Jews are never too sure whether it is a true friendship or one maintained by taquiya for whatever interests.
    I know that this duplicity exists in Western society as well but not to the degree that “terminological inexactitudes” exist in the Arab culture.
    And of course there is the wealth of hindsight to make one reticent about expressing such friendships.

  55. Cynic says:


    I posted a comment in reply to your #42 and it has dispappeared.
    I’ll copy/paste what I wrote and let’s see what could be wrong.

    #42 Are you arguing that anti-Colonialists invert and abuse anti-racism laws and conventions? And that they hack the Human Rights discourse while doing so?

    From the way I read and understand the argument those people reduce laws, conventions, discourse etc., to clichés, which in some cases they choose specifically to bludgeon the opposition, and in others they fill the chambers of a revolver and play a sort of Russian Roulette …..
    Sort of like what obsy suggested about choosing a party to vote for?

    Are some of the words not permitted? No juice to see, move along now!

  56. E.G. says:


    One example of hacking is the “Right of Return”. There’s no such right in any Intl. legislation, resolution or convention. The sole exception is the Israeli citizenship law – the misnamed “Law of Return” (the Hebrew word is more akin to “repatriation”).
    This “Right” is an extrapolation fallaciously based on UN res. 194 art. 11 (Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date…) and 242 (just settlement of the refugee problem). And, of course , UN res. 242 deals with territories that were occupied.
    In short, an invented right made up by pseudo anti-Colonialists.

  57. E.G. says:


    P.S. The hypocrisy of the “Right of Return” folk is revealed in their opposition to the return of Jews to places from which they were expelled (ethnically cleansed) in 1948: Jerusalem, Hebron, Gush Etzion…

  58. Cynic says:


    Twice I tried to reply to #42 and twice the comment did not appear. Are the PC police at work>

  59. andrew says:


    I agree with ALMOST all you say, with the following
    exception: Nauru voted against the Goldstone report,
    and the ”man in charge” (I have forgotten her title
    and, yes, she’s a lady) explained in the Jerusalem Post
    that the choice of defending Israel came from nothing
    else than what justice, in her opinion, demanded.
    Yes, it seems that the Solomon Islands’ voice was bought (by Iran). So far as France is concerned, I do
    not know (a joke of course: it could not be THAT obvious).

  60. E.G. says:


    There are times when one has to face reality.

    Surely you’re aware that your opinion is not shared by everyone.
    Differently put, “reality” is differentially conceived or represented by different individuals.

  61. E.G. says:


    It’s the ‘*%&#° filters conspiracy.

  62. Michelle Schatzman says:


    I did not check who voted for the Goldstone report. I believe that Nauru is the poorest state on earth, reduced to recognizing Taiwan every four or five years, against some money for survival. I am indeed astonished and admirative of Nauru *not* voting the Goldstone report, and I thank you for correcting me.

  63. Michelle Schatzman says:


    as you know, I did not claim that the position of the “anticolonialist” left was grounded in law. I am just giving their position and not subtracting anything from their stupidity, cowardice and suicidal tendencies.


    I listened to the Khaled Abu Toameh talk you mentioned in your #42 and I read his articles linked in your #43. If I could, I would hug him and kiss him on both cheeks. Once in a while, there is a good journalist, who is courageous and reports what he sees, and what he understands witout any will to direct the thought of his readers. Kudos to him, and thank you Daniel for giving these links.

  64. Cynic says:


    In circumstances reality can be relative, for example one person being in the States, the other in the Middle East.
    Then again there is the reality of an act which is caused or abetted which ended in tragedy and not seeing it for what it is does not mean that relativity is involved.
    Unfortunately life has caused me to witness two types of parents; in one case they refused to accept that their angel had done what was done whereas in another case the parents came to terms with the facts.
    They both mourn their losses and while the second couple still cries at the grave every year they have come to terms with their loss while the first one daily gnashes its teeth.

  65. Cynic says:


    Surely you’re aware that your opinion is not shared by everyone.

    But then what would this blog be like? :-)

  66. E.G. says:


    You forgot, among the bereaved parents, the kind of Nurit Peled-Elhanan…
    There are various means of coping.

  67. sshender says:

    OK. Now it’s official! The Israeli media have gone mad! I’ve just spent the last couple of hours zapping through the various news bulletins and political talk-shows and the only thing I found was a unison feeding frenzy onn Netanyahu. He was blamed for the “peace process” impasse, as well as the more recent developments vis-a-vis the white house and the outburst of Palestinian violence culminating in today’s riots in Jerusalem and Hamas officials’ calls for a 3rd Intifadah.

    Not a single commentator stopped to ask whether it was Israel’s fault to begin with, and to ponder whether Netanyahu had much to with it or about it. Not once, was the White House enmity and failing policy towards Israel mentioned, nor was the Palestinian sides’ intransigence and the leg-dragging even once mentioned with regard to the stalemate of talks between the two sides. NO. Instead we had MK Tibbi explaining the intractable Jewish public how it’s all our fault and that the Palestinians really have no other choice but to resort to violence.

    I mean, one would expect this kind of nonsense from the European and some of the US MSM, but not from people intimately familiar with the small details. It all seeemed as if relative calm since the end of the second Intifadah has put the media into slumber and now it tries to kill the messenger who has flashed reality in front of their sleepy eyes. Instead of rejoicing at the final revelation of the true nature of this US administration and the Palestinian rejectionism, they swoop down on Netanyahu like hungry vultures in anticipation of their slim pickings.

    I’m disgusted.

  68. E.G. says:


    A vocal minority barks.
    FYI, I have an acquaintance who, after a heart attack, got an M.D. prescription – rather order – to avoid TV news-related programmes. That was some 12 years ago.

    OTOH, it’s a great opportunity to observe a guilt-principled society vs. shame-principled one.

  69. sshender says:

    National Geographic Magazine’s latest issue is devoted to Water problems in the world, so it foreseeable that it would not be complete without the Middle East story about the evil Israeli water usurpers with their lavish pools in the settlements on the once side, and the poor, downtrodden Arabs living in squalor and deprivation on the other.

    I have been a long life subscriber of the magazines which for most of its life tried to steer away from political controversy. But it looks like the flood gates have recently been prone open by the likes of the Lancet and other supposedly a-political publications. So now it’s open season on Israel on all fronts.


    Now let’s go through the photo sequence to illustrate what I’m talking about:

    We kick off with a rather nice pic of an Israeli couple enjoying a romantic timeout on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. Unfortunately, the mood is spoiled when we learn that those innocent looking Israelis have Since 1967 blocked Syria’s access to the lake’s shoreline. I wonder why…

    In the next pic, contrary to the laid-back Israelis we see a Jordanian Water reservoir with very little water in it, and told that the Jordanian are forced now to ration its water.

    So, while the poor Jordanians are having to ration water (which of course has nothing to do with bad water management), we are treated to what can only be described as the Israelis’ extravagant squandering of precious, but now relatively abundant, water in a pool in the Kinneret shoreline city of Tiberias. Just look at these glutted bourgeoisie Israelis squandering the precious water that is in so desperate need in the Arab world. Apprently there are no pools in Jordan or the West Bank.

    Which brings us to the next picture whose contrast says all there is to say about the underlying message of this piece. The innocent faces of Jordanian children staring helplessly into the camera with the surrounding squalor and misery all around them. What a contrast to those Israelis in the pool. One can’t help but feel sorry for them and in the name of justice take all that pool water from the Jews for much better use. This is how you manipulate public opinion through emotional images.

    The rest of the slide show in no better. In another slide we are informed that near Bethlehem the Palestinian sheep farmers are suffering shortages of water due to six years of drought and are cut off from most underground sources of water by Israel’s military occupation.
    Then we are treated to a Palestinian greenhouse in Auja, abandoned due to lack of water. Though sitting atop a vast reservoir of underground water, the West Bank village has been unable to dig a well deep enough to reach it, denied permits by the Israeli military.

    In another instance it is said that Palestinians, restricted to shallow wells by Israel’s occupation, buy West Bank groundwater from Israel with European Union aid.

    And so on and so forth.

  70. sshender says:

    P.S. I looked up the town of Auja and it apparently has been under complete PA national authority since 1994, so I can’t get my head around how it could be denied anything by the omnipotent Israeli military.

    Also the area around Bethlehem is also predominantely Area A under full Palestinian authority.

  71. Cynic says:


    Maybe this can explain it all

    By cartoon

  72. E.G. says:

    Cynic and sshender,


    The writing in Hebrew says: Justice.

  73. Cynic says:


    She copes by attacking her own! If she is so right then she should admit that just by her Jewish existence she is guilty.

    Taken from wikipedia
    She states that she does not blame the group of suicide bombers for the incident, but rather the Israeli oppression of Palestinians as an indirect cause of her daughter’s death.

    Good grief there are riots and policeman was shot because the juice had the cheek to rebuild the Hurva synagogue.
    Now if there were no juice spilling out into allah’s country there would be no riots. Can’t have the descendants of pigs and apes despoiling the country side.

  74. E.G. says:


    She’s done much worse. Like recycle Bialik’s elegy about the Kishinev Pogrom to talk about her pet Arabs.
    But it’s hard to criticize a bereaved mother. Even if she’s gone nuts. BTW, she participates at the “Russell Tribunal”. And still teaches at the Hebrew U.

  75. sshender says:

    What a delusional bitch. Talk about Stockholm syndrome gone amok. E.G. have you seen the Russell Tribunal? I read about it in the papers a few weeks ago and probably mentioned it here or on the Elder of Ziyon blog.

    What is most painful to me is that I consider Russell to be one of the greatest secular philosophers of our time when it comes to religion, and yet his politics are naive and downright suicidal. Unfortunately, this condition afflicts all too many atheists, and being active in that community I have to face this stupidity all too often.

    Cynic, thanks for the cartoon.

  76. sshender says:

    P.S. on top of being morally depraved, she is also empirically wrong when she attributed the humiliation, oppression and desperation to the point of suicide and murder and inhumanity as the reason for her daughters’ death.

    Anyone even vaguely familiar with scholarly research into the phenomena of suicide murderers can tell you that these factors alone are not enough to precipitate these attacks. Not to mention who’s guilt it is of bringing about the conditions for all of the above calamities.

  77. E.G. says:

    Yes sshender,

    Stalin would have been proud if he saw this Kangaroo “Tribunal” that is his grandchild. There must be a Groucho line that fits it.

    As for Nurit Peled-Elhanan, I’m not sure she represents even 1% of Israeli bereaved parents. But her voice is loud and echoed. Unlike that, for example, of the Israeli Gynecologist who got fatally injured by a Hamas Rocket shot at her Ashkelon clinic, and whose testimony was summed in 3-4 lines in the Goldstone “report”.

    It’s Orwellian.

  78. E.G. says:

    Nurit Peled-Elhanan is part of the tiny category into which the Corries went or were pushed/driven. There’s also Cindy Sheenan.
    The MSM acts as their loudspeakers.

  79. sshender says:


    She is worse. While one can excuse the lack of nuance in understanding that the party responsible for your loved ones’ death is not necessarily the one physically doing the killing, no amount of sophistry can account for Nurit’s condition.

  80. ushystyfuck says:

    u really are a shysty fuck, aren’t you?
    disparaging the murdered victim, hope u never get close to me cuz ill show you what its like to be run over by something a lot bigger than you.

  81. E.G. says:

    For everybody’s Schadenfreude:

    French contestants torture each other on TV Game of Death
    A nice misleading title, about
    The aim of the experiment – to be aired as a documentary on France 2 TV on Wednesday evening – is to show how the manipulative power of television can push people to ever more outrageous limits.

  82. Michelle Schatzman says:


    it is a version of the Milgram experiment, where the authority is no more the white-coated scientist, but a TV emcee. Seems that white-coated scientists don’t make lots of effect nowadays. I don’t have a TV set, so I’m going to miss that.

  83. Michelle Schatzman says:


    It was spread across all the press, with special articles in popular science magazines. Nobody could avoid it!

  84. Eliyahu says:

    without going into the whole ugly story of Nurit Peled-Elhanan, bear in mind that she is the daughter of Mati Peled, one of Israel’s first major peace pimps after the 6 Day War. Mati Peled must have been trained in psywar slogans, because he used to say:

    Israel can have territory or it can have peace, but not both.

    This slogan is simplistic to say the least. It seems to me to have been copied from one of the pro-peace-with-Nazi-Germany slogans used in France before the German invasion.

    Sometimes of course the possession of territory is needed to preserve the peace.

  85. E.G. says:


    I watched a bit of the programme – there’s something un-Kosher about it. I suspect it’s the editing. For the viewer, the scientific authority of the psych. team and its chief that keeps “intervening” (through editorial cuts) is highly conspicuous, as well as the programme presenter’s (?) voice-over describing the processes while the “experimental subjects” and the (excellent) show/game TV presenter are performing.
    In short, the viewer is being constantly orientated.

    It’s very similar to Charlie’s technique on that report.

  86. E.G. says:


    Matti Peled was a General who fought the Independence war and was also the Gaza commander after the 6-days war. He, at least, had some active credentials (in some ways, Uri Avnery too). His daughters’ sole credentials are her butchered daughter, and that’s a case apart (see the link in #76).

  87. Michelle Schatzman says:


    There is nothing kosher about this kind of program. there is usually no integrity and more research of sensation and high viewer ratings than anything else. My decision of not having a TV set is not religious – it’s just that most TV in France is unbearable or utterly boring.

  88. Eliyahu says:

    EG #84,
    Peled was the governor of Gaza after the Sinai Campaign of 1956. During the Six Day War he was the chief army quartermaster. He also spent considerable time studying in Britain. That can be very damaging to an Israeli’s mind since it brings him in close contact with British mindbenders. Ilan Pappe studied in Britain with Albert Hourani, for example. Peled also studied in the US in California. Since he served in the Palmah, he was quite likely a committed socialist going way back.


    These Palmahniks were not averse to violence and military actions, of course, but were sometimes known to want to impose socilist solutions through subverting democracy and using force, coup d’etats, etc.

    In 1974 or 1975 he undertook a tour of the United States, speaking at various venues, including some Jewish institutions. His tour was sponsored by the anti-Israel American Friends Service Committee, among other bodies. His speech that I heard was full of asinine generalities and simplistic and simpleminded claims. For instance, he claimed that if only Israel would withdraw unilaterally to the 1949 armistice lines with “the West Bank,” then the Arabs would leave Israel alone and not attack. Someone in the audience asked what Israel could or should do if, after withdrawing, the Arabs continued to attack from the withdrawn from areas. He answered –note well– that Israel should shoot a few artillery shells, at Qalqilya, for instance, in such an eventuality. That would be sure to deter from further attacks, he claimed.

    Now we know that shooting artillery shells at a town or city, might likely kill and wound civilians. So this prospect apparently did not bother him at the time. I was aware as I listened to him that not only would civilians likely be killed by such use of artillery as a “deterrent” but that this would lead to a major political assault on Israel from all the world’s major hypocritical powers, including the United States. The USA in Vietnam killed plenty of civilians. But the USA would have joined in to attack Israel on those grounds. So a unilateral withdrawal would in fact leave Israel without any deterrence since in fact for political/diplomatic reasons artillery could not be used –at least not by Israel– against any Arab civilian town. But Peled persevered with his lies about the desirability of unilateral withdrawal.

    When I say, “his lies”, I mean that he had to be lying, or else he was brainwashed. That too is possible but less likely.

  89. E.G. says:


    We have no real disagreement. I merely argue that Mrs. Peled-Elhanan is and should be held responsible for her own acts. Whatever she got from her Papa is secondary, if only because there are many examples of people who went against or aside their family heritage (e.g., Burg). That this often doesn’t impede such persons from using (abusing) their parents’ status and restate their positions so as to fit and advance their own agenda is another symptom of the “juniors” depravity.

  90. obsy says:

    Does anybody know something about this:
    “A Strategic Plan to Improve the Political Position of the Islamic State of Iraq”


    Call it the jihadist version of David Petraeus’s FM 3-24, a counter-counterinsurgency manual …

    I only found two further links.
    Both quote this part:

    It explains its setbacks, which it argues came at the height of its power and influence, on what it calls two smart and effective U.S. moves in 2006-07: an effective U.S. media and psychological campaign, which convinced many that the “mujahideen” had committed atrocities against Iraqis and killed thousands of Muslims; and the Awakenings, achieved through its manipulation of the tribes and the “nationalist resistance.” The document doesn’t mention the “Surge” much at all, at least not in terms of the troop escalation which most Americans have in mind.

    What is this?
    Is it authentic and/or propaganda?
    If it is authentic, is it a honest analysis done by Al Qaeda terrorists or are they trying to revalue themselves and distract (their members) from those battlegrounds where they are loosing?

  91. obsy says:

    In 2008, the United States approved an Israeli request for bunker-busters capable of destroying underground facilities, including Iranian nuclear weapons sites. Officials said delivery of the weapons was held up by the administration of President Barack Obama.

    Since taking office, Obama has refused to approve any major Israeli requests for U.S. weapons platforms or advanced systems.



  92. E.G. says:

    obsy #93

    There’s no way of knowing – those who might are not going to disclose it here…

    May this piece (O/T) compensate:

  93. Ray in Seattle says:

    Re #95: Hmmm. An op-ed written by a RW think tank, published in the WSJ who’s major source of income is ad revenue from companies that stand to lose from regulation of greenhouse gas emissions. Nothing to worry about there.

    I’d remind anyone interested, that except for various RW blowhards and bloggers, Climategate (all its claims) has already been thoroughly debunked – and the idea of AGW has not only survived but has been significantly reinforced by the latest data. Dare I suggest again that people believe what feels good – and will refuse to believe what doesn’t feel good – what violates their ideology. And this, no matter how much evidence is available.

    Also, the author attempts to discredit the peer-review process itself by showing hypothetical conflicts-of-interest. What makes the system work is not that the humans who participate in it are infallibly objective – they are not – it is that the system is inherently self-correcting. It is farcical to suggest that any global climate scientist who has data to disprove or cast serious doubt on the IPCC conclusions would not be able to have his opinions considered. The greater the scientific consensus the more credit will accrue to any scientist who can honestly and objectively show that consensus to be in error. This has not happened although all the claims have been thoroughly and repetitiously published.


    Some critics claim that the e-mails invalidate the conclusions of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the world scientific body that reaffirmed in a 2007 report that the earth is warming, sea levels are rising and that human activity is “very likely” the cause of “most of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century.” But the IPCC’s 2007 report, its most recent synthesis of scientific findings from around the globe, incorporates data from three working groups, each of which made use of data from a huge number of sources — of which CRU was only one. The synthesis report notes key disagreements and uncertainties but makes the “robust” conclusion that “warming of the climate system is unequivocal.” (A robust finding is defined as “one that holds under a variety of approaches, methods, models and assumptions, and is expected to be relatively unaffected by uncertainties.”)

  94. obsy says:


    the article is not really about climategate. Just take out headline, introduction and closing words. That’s just to get the readers (or editors?) attention.
    It is not even about the quality of peer reviewed information.

    It is about the channeling of research (and teaching) focus as well as the shaping of research (and teaching) facilities by a process that values quality by (the number of) publications.

    I wonder why it didn’t mention external funds (from the state)? Maybe research funding works different in the USA.

  95. E.G. says:


    Unless one’s an insider of a scientific community, one cannot imagine or know what Berkowitz is talking about.

  96. Ray in Seattle says:

    Obsy @97: Article title: Climategate Was an Academic Disaster Waiting to Happen

    Article Subhead: The notion of objective truth has been abandoned and the peer review process gives scholars ample opportunity to reward friends and punish enemies.

    Oh the humanity!

    He seems to say that climategate is the result of structural deficiencies in academia including the “corrupt” peer review process. I think for him it’s kind of like the “Nabka” is for most most Arabs, who are sure that the state of Israel was a disaster waiting to happen – caused by the permissive attitudes of the British Mandate that somehow allowed several hundred thousand Jews to immigrate onto “Arab” land.

    In both cases the “disaster” is an attempt to use PR to reach a political goal. The “disaster” is basically a rhetorical Trojan horse. And in both cases there’s no “there” there.

  97. Margie says:

    Soon after reading this thread I was unwise enough to listen to SkyNews. I got what I deserved. There was a report of a visit by Ban Ki Moon to Ramallah where he criticised the building of dwelling units for more than 1600 people near East Jerusalem.

    There was no explanation of how far away one needs to be from ‘East Jerusalem’ to be correct in building homes for non-Moslems. Would the reply be in hundreds of kilometres by chance?

  98. E.G. says:


    Makes me think that by next year, requests for permits to add an elevator to any Israeli building will be directly addressed to the UN. Or to the US Presidency.

    But have you heard anything about this?

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