Palestinian Nakba: The Politics of Victimhood and the Folly of the West

Ben Dror Yemini has an provocative piece on the fraud of the notion of the Nakba. It’s a bit too pre-post-modern for my taste. I prefer not to talk about “facts” and “truth” and more about reliable evidence, and accurate interpretations. Do its polemics undermine its history?

Nakba Day and the Fraud
Ben-Dror Yemini

The Palestinians have been holding the title of “refugees” for over six decades. They have succeeded in creating a unique historical narrative for themselves. This myth is growing, so it should be shattered and the real facts presented: the Palestinian population before the first Aliya was sparse, hundreds of thousands of Jews were also expelled from Arab countries, and there is no precedent anywhere in the world for the right of return.

The Nakba – the story of the Palestinian refugees is the greatest success story in the history of modern times – a success that is a complete fraud. There is no other group of “refugees” in the world that has gotten such broad global coverage. Not a week goes by without a conference, another conference, about the wretched state of the Palestinians. There is not a campus in the West that does not devote countless events, conferences and publications, each year or each month to the issue of the Palestinian refugees. They have become the ultimate victims. A million calamities and injustices and expulsions and population exchanges and acts of genocide and slaughter and wars have befallen the world since the Arabs, among them the Palestinians, declared a war of annihilation on Israel – but the Nakba of the Palestinians takes up most of the space. A visitor from another planet would think that it was the greatest injustice suffered by the entire universe since the Second World War.

The Palestinians, for whom their pain vastly exceeds the pain of others, certainly feel that this is so. The question is, why would the rest of the world agree with them?

Consider, for example, this casualty footprint of the Arab-Israeli conflict from 1988-2008 compared to that of the various conflicts going on within the Democratic Republic of Congo.

casulty footprint

That’s less than 10,000 deaths among the Arabs, and more than five million among the people of the DRC.

Now reverse the names, and you have the media footprint.

So it is best to shatter this lie. It is best to present the real facts. It is best to expose the fraud.

Read the rest, and follow the multiple links.

Ben-Dror Yemini is a senior columnist in Maariv, daily newspaper
Previous articles of Ben-Dror Yemini

75 Responses to Palestinian Nakba: The Politics of Victimhood and the Folly of the West

  1. E.G. says:

    While it’s not a bit too pre-PoMo for my taste, perhaps just medium- old-fashioned, I also have a distaste for using the term “truth”. OTOH, a journalist writing about “to expose the fraud” of a myth may, IMO, afford to use “facts” – especially as the paper does bring reliable evidence, inter alia based on first-hand testimony.
    As for “accurate interpretation” – well, if that’s not pre-PoMo, what is? (tongue in the Other cheek)

    I don’t see why it would be characterised as “provocative” at all. Except, of course by the disseminators and believers of the myth. But they don’t need much to get provoked anyway.

    Do its polemics undermine its history?

    IMO no. It’s a journalistic piece (actually, it’s on the author’s blog), not an academic one. And journalism, especially regarding this subject, is highly polemic and more often than not, very “problematic” evidence-ridden.

    It is about time, and it’s not too early, for such a piece, quite systematically contradicting so many specious claims that appear daily on a variety of platforms around the world, to be published.
    And I’d really like to see whether a real controversy gets to happen. Let’s see whether anyone comes up with at least as reliable materials contradicting the ones Yemini brings forth.

    I’d also like to see Yemini – and others – add more reliable evidence rebutting each and every specious claim, and gathering them in some accessible space.
    So I think that it’s a great starting point. An increased data-base will strengthen the historic foundations that have been laid.

  2. Lorenz Gude says:

    My mother (Barnard ’34): Why is your little sister crying?
    Me: There could be many accurate interpretations.
    My mother (Barnard ’34): Liar! (Smack)

    Such was life in the Pre-Post Modern era. I don’t think the author’s arguments fall into one sided polemics. They are strong because he is challenging a well established myth. Like we all know that the Palestinians are the indigenous people and we have all seen Avatar so we know that indigenous are good and guys with tanks are bad. Right? Well, no – there would seem to be a case that the Jews are indigenous and that when they decided to come back in numbers they really did find a whole lot of ‘terra nullius’ unlike the English when they declared Australia terra nullius despite the fact that Aboriginal people were running around everywhere chasing kangaroos. Now I don’t think there is any solution to the problem in Israel/Palestine but we did find a Post Modern solution to the Aboriginal problem here in Australia. We corrected the idea that there were no people here when Europeans arrived and our high court declared that there was such a thing as Native Title to the land – except of course when it was extinguished. Now wherever people like politicians or academics gather they always publicly acknowledge that they are on [insert name of tribe] land – sometimes even asking permission from the traditional owners to use it. Now maybe I read too much Barry Rubin and am barking up the wrong narrative, but I think Obama is trying (as did his predecessors) to impose this kind of Post Modern solution on Israel. Don’t fall for it. Instead, my advice is to take up the Spanish sport of Bullfighting because one way or another it always ends in “The Moment of Truth”. That is what Israel faces from a minimum of three directions at once before any resolution has a snowball’s chance in hell.

  3. Sergio says:

    This aboriginal analogy won’t do. First, aboriginals were almost exterminated, right? And pals are demographically on the rise (in spite of so-called “genocide” perpetrated by evil Zionists). Also, pals want a zero-sum solution with Jews back to the dhimmitude. That explains their consistent rejectionism and the fundamental reason the conflict persists.

    And why this shyness about truth and fact? Truth is reached after carefully scrutiny of reliable evidence. Yes, truth is usually indirect and incomplete but we can reach it sometimes. On the other hand, WTF is a “narrative”? It is just fiction.

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  5. Lorenz Gude says:

    Sergio, I was being very non serious with the Aboriginal angle and simply using the way Europeans have imposed a solution that makes the descendants of the Europeans feel good in a PCP I and PCP II paradigm way. So no it wont work and yes the Aboriginal population was reduced much more than in Palestine. Extermination only too place in Tasmania, BTW. I was mostly having a go at RL’s Post Modern discomfort with words like ‘truth’ and ‘facts’. And I was being quite unfair in an attempt to be humorous while indulging my animus against Post Modernism. What I was implying is that unrealistic solutions (like pretending to get along) wont work and that all out war to the finish is a real possibility. I thought the calling a spade a spade language of the piece was effective and appropriate. I was also taking the mickey out of the PCP I idea that the indigenous label is a 100% reliable marker of all goodness and righteousness – as in the movie Avatar. And in the minds of large numbers of western people who unconsciously absorb their world view from the nightly fictions that get palmed off as the news (ie al Durah)or from the overtly fictitious like Avatar.

  6. Sergio says:

    Lorenz,

    Sorry, I got it now…I apologize for my bluntness.

    All the best.

  7. Stan says:

    Two (2) years after the liberation of the death camps in Europe – not the refugee camps – not the prison camps – or the detention camps – nor the labour camp – nor the holiday camps – but the DEATH camps – the Jews were once again faced with the threat of extinction this time by every Arab state in the Middle East – attacking from all sides.
    This was when the myth of the Palastinian nation was created – 2 years after the liberation of the death camps in Europe.
    Now – 60 years later – some people in the world have chosen to make the plight of the Jews seemingly to be old history – that should be forgotten – and the plight of the Palastinians to be modern history – something to be active about. All because of these 2 years – it seems.
    They have also chosen to make it seem like the refugee camps – with condos, malls, clinics, schools, zoos and mosques – are the same conditions as the Jews experienced in the DEATH camps. All because of 2 years?

  8. Sergio says:

    In fact, one year after the liberation, jewish prisioners returned to their homes were victims of apogrom! (e.g., Kielce, in Poland, 1946).

  9. E.G. says:

    Complementing Stan:

    proud and arrogant

    That’s cartoonist’s Tim (Louis Mitelberg) reply, titled “sure of itself and domineering”, to De Gaulle’s Nov. 1967 declaration that Israel is “an elite people, sure of itself and domineering”.
    [peuple d'élite, sûr de lui-même et dominateur]

    Some argue that the myth was created before 1947, for others its birthdate is 1967.

  10. Solomonia says:

    Ben-Dror Yemini: Nakba Day and the Fraud…

    [The following, by Ben-Dror Yemini, is posted in full. Related: Richard Landes comments, here: Palestinian Nakba: The Politics of Victimhood and the Folly of the West] The Palestinians have been holding the title of “refugees” for over six decades –…

  11. incognito says:

    Why are polemics necessary when there is this?

    Palestine Betrayed

  12. incognito says:

    stan,

    This was when the myth of the Palastinian nation was created – 2 years after the liberation of the death camps in Europe.

    Correction: the “palestinian people” myth was created in the 60′s, more or less after the 67 war. prior to that the non-jewish residents of palestine deemed themselves arabs.

    “Now – 60 years later – some people in the world have chosen to make the plight of the Jews seemingly to be old history – that should be forgotten – and the plight of the Palastinians to be modern history – something to be active about. All because of these 2 years – it seems.”

    That anti-semitism sort of “went away” for 60 years was an illusion. In fact, a-s has always been the standard scapegoating during crises and hardships. It is, therefore, hardly a mystery that it has shown its ugly face again when the west is decaying and it faces the consequences of its own self-destruction.

  13. incognito says:

    e.g.,

    De Gaulle’s Nov. 1967 declaration that Israel is “an elite people, sure of itself and domineering”.

    Coming from the french, part. deGaulle, that’s rich, part. given the Algerian record, don’t you think?

    All you have to do to understand most criticism of Israel or the jews is to assume that they are accused of thanprecisely what the accusers are guilty of and much. Indeed, that’s the major factor underlying judeophobia.

  14. Stan says:

    To get back to the time-warp slight of hand trick employed by those who wish to make the plight of the Jews seemingly to be old history and the plight of the Palastinians to be modern history – is the coining of the term “67 borders” – which are in fact:
    1. The 47 Armistice lines drawn up 2 years after the liberation of the DEATH camps (for Jews).
    2. Documented in the agreement on the insistance of the Arabs as only temporary lines.

    It seems it is now convinient to some to suddenly project this cease-fire line into the sixties in order to use the time-warp trick, even though the refugees from the 47 War of Independance are still refered to as refugees.
    To the non-Jewish people I speak to around me (who are ignorant of the complexities of this conflict) – this slight of hand trick has worked – giving them the perception that the Palastinian problem is a post-WWII modern era conflict – as opposed to the liberation of the DEATH camps – which is perceived as old history. On enlightenment they are shocked to realise how they have been conned.

  15. E.G. says:

    Post-Zionism, Post-Holocaust
    Three Essays on Denial, Forgetting, and the Delegitimation of Israel
    by Prof. Elhanan Yakira

    (TOC and Preface):
    http://assets.cambridge.org/97805211/27868/frontmatter/9780521127868_frontmatter.pdf

    Excerpted with permission from “Palestine Betrayed” by Efraim Karsh.
    http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=3026054&p=1

  16. E.G. says:

    To all concerned, here is Yemini’s piece in French

    http://www.france-israel.org/articles.ahd?idart=408

  17. incognito says:

    To the non-Jewish people I speak to around me (who are ignorant of the complexities of this conflict) – this slight of hand trick has worked – giving them the perception that the Palastinian problem is a post-WWII modern era conflict

    Western ignorance, cowardice and decay is at the root of the west swallowing the palestinian propaganda and terror lock stock and barrel and turning against israel; the other underlying factor is anti-semitism and the inconvenience of the jews gaul to raise their head and refuse to be exterminated.

  18. JD says:

    The Nakba – the story of the Palestinian refugees

    That is inaccurate. The Nakba is the creation of the state of Israel and the defeat of the Arab armies set to destroy it. The “refugee” aspect of it is the double talk sold to Westerners, to avoid admitting bigotry.

    This was an is an existential/religious/nationalistic crisis for Arab muslims. The idea that the lowly Jews beat them is greatly shaming, seems to reverse the progress of Dar al Islam, and a great blow to their pride being defeated by such a small enemy after years of colonialization.

  19. Daniel BIelak says:

    The belief in the false narrative – the false history – currently held by the majority of people in the world, including almost all of the members of the governments of all Western democratic countries, including almost all of the members of the government of the United States – is what the problem is.

    The problem is the false narrative – the false history – the fabricated history that is made of lies.

    The effort to present the factual history of the situation is the main effort that needs to be engaged in by representatives of Israel and by defenders and protectors of Israel and by defenders and protectors of the whole free world.

    The following facts constitute the factual history of the situation.

    The following are a series of facts that need to be firmly and continuously repeated by representatives of Israel and by defenders and protectors of Israel and by defenders and protectors of the whole free world and by protectors of the whole world.

    Firmly.

    Continuously.

    I have written the following list, and the following list may contain factual errors (mainly, I think, about the precise actions by Kim Philby and Allan Dulles in their participation in the war against the Jewish people). I ask anyone who is going to repeat the following facts to please fact-check the following list of what I think are relatively accurate statements and what I think are, in general, facts, for errors.

    The British Mandate of Palestine

    Approximately 2,000 years ago, after the army of the Roman empire conquered and occupied the original country of the Jewish (Yehoudi) people, which had, prior to then, diminished from Israel (Yisrael) into only Judea (Youdah), the army of the Roman empire destroyed Youdah and commited mass-murderous genocide against the Jewish people, and the Romans renamed Youdah and neighboring Sameria to Falastina, after the ancient, then-extinct, Greco sea-faring people the Philistines (P’listim, in Hebrew), who had many centuries earlier attacked and invaded the country of the Jewish people, Yisrael.

    In the late 1800′s, Theodor Herzl, an Austro-Hungarian Jewish man, began the Jewish Liberation and National Self-Determination movement – the Zionist movment – after he witnessed the framing of, and the false accusations of treachery against, and the unjust trial of, and the conviction of, and the public humiliation of, and the subsequent non-chalant aquittal of, the French General Richard Dreyfus, and after he witnessed the resulting massive surge of anti-Jewish bigoted hysteria that arose in Europe, which brought to the surface and made apparent to him and other Jewish people, the anti-Jewish bigotry that still was, at that time, and had been for millenia, and continues to be, to this day, a normal, normative, engrained part of the culture of Western societies – Jewish-based, Christian and Post-Christian, European-based societies – and which made apparent to him and other Jewish people the need for Jewish people to establish their own country where they would be free from oppression and persecution. The term Zionist is based on the word Tsiyon (Pronounced, tseeYOHN) which is the name of the hill on which the original, founding, city, Jerusalem (Yerushalayim), of the original country of the Jewish people, Israel (Yisrael), was built, and sits. The goal of Zionism was the modern establishment – the refounding – of the country of the Jewish people in the original country of the Jewish people, Israel, as a refuge and home for the Jewish people.

    Jewish people who cherish the country of the Jewish people, and who desire to have their country, Israel, desire to have their country in the same way that Irish people have Ireland, and Japanese people have Japan, and Italian people have Italy, etc. That is what Zionism is.

    The land encompassed by the British Mandate of Palestine had been part of the Turkish Muslim Ottoman Empire for many centuries until Britain took that area of land from Turkey after Britain and Britain’s allies defeated Germany and German-allied Turkey in World War I.

    The British Mandate of Palestine was assigned by Britain, by some British officials who were sympathetic to the cause of Zionism, to be a home country for the Jewish people, in response to petitions by Jewish leaders of the Zionist movement. The size and borders of the The British Mandate of Palestine were established by British officials. The British Mandate of Palestine encompassed what is now Jordan, and what is now Israel, and what is now called the “The West Bank” (also known as Judea (Youdah) and Sameria), and what is now called “The Gaza Strip”.

    In 1919, Haim Weizman, representing the Jewish people who were engaged in the Jewish Liberation and National Self-Determination movement – the Zionist movement – and Emir Faisal Husseini, the then head of the prominent Arab aristocratic Husseini family, representing the Arab people who lived in the land that was encompassed by The British Mandate of Palestine, met together in several meetings, and formally and officially agreed to the creation of one Jewish state in the British Mandate of Palestine and the creation of one Arab state in the British Mandate of Palestine.

    Throughout the 1920′s, beginning in 1920, other British officials, most influentially through the efforts of Kim Philby, who was a British official and spy and future Nazi collaborator and future Soviet KGB double agent, and French officials, sabotaged the agreement between Haim Weizman and Emir Faisal al Husseini by breaking agreements that Britain had made with Haim Weizman and Emir Faisal and by breaking agreements that France had made with Britain and Emir Faisal.

    All of the land that Jewish people who were engaged in the Zionist movement developed and settled on, almost all of which had been barren and arid, was land that the Jewish people who were engaged in the Zoinist movement bought, at exorbitant prices, from absentee Arab landlords.

    A Brief History of the “Palestinian” Movement

    In 1920, Amin Al Husseini, a member of the prominent Arab aristocratic Husseini family, organized murderous anti-Jewish riots in the British Mandate of Palestine.

    In 1921, British officials created the official position Grand Mufti of Jerusalem to which they appointed Amin Al Husseini. Throughout the 1920′s and 1930′s, Amin Al Husseini, with the support of British officials, organized massacres of Jewish people in the British Mandate of Palestine, and led murderous and expulsive ethnic-cleansing campaigns against the Jewish people who lived in towns in, and, in many cases, whose families had lived for centuries in towns in, what was at that time called the British Mandate of Palestine.

    In 1924, Mustafa Kemal Pasha, as the founder and President of the secular Republic of Turkey, abolished the Sunni Muslim caliphate, the Sunni Muslim Islamic government that had been ruling much of the Middle East for many centuries.

    In the 1920′s, Adolf Hitler founded the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”-Jewish-conspiracy-theory-based, Marxist-influenced, Germanic-Supremacist, German National Socialist movement – the Nazi movement.

    In 1928, Hassan al Banna, who had read the writings of Adolf Hitler and who had written admiring letters to Adolf Hitler, established the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”-Jewish-conspiracy-theory-based, Wahabi-orthdox-Sunni-Islam-based, genocidally anti-Jewish, Islamic-Supremcist poltical organization the Muslim Brotherhood. The official goal of the Muslim Brotherhood goal was, and continues to be, the establishment of a Sunni Muslim system of government, called a caliphate, ruled by Islamic Law, called Sharia, ruling all of the Middle East and eventually ruling the whole world.

    In 1928, Amin Al Husseini joined, and became a prominent member of, the Muslim Brotherhood.

    In the 1930′s, Arab leaders in the Middle East allied with the German National Socialist (Nazi) regime of Germany and founded the anti-Jewish Pan-Arab Nationalist movement.

    In the 1930′s Amin Al Husseini met with senior officials of the Nazi regime of Germany, and with his family, founded the anti-Jewish Palestinian Arab Nationalist political organization the Palestinian Arab Party, with which he founded the Palestinian Arab Nationalist youth corps terrorist militia al-Futuwa, which Amin Al Husseini modeled on the Hitler Youth youth corps division of the Nazi regime of Germany, and which Amin Al Husseini officially named the Nazi Scouts.

    Throughout the 1930′s, Amin Al Husseini waged a campaign of mudering Muslim Arab leaders in the British Mandate of Palestine who accepted and promoted the idea of the creation of a Jewish state in the British Mandate of Palestine along with the creation of an Arab state in the British Mandate of Palestine.

    By the end of the 1930′s, most British officials opposed Amin Al Husseini.

    From 1941 to 1945, Amin Al Husseini resided in Germany and was an adjoined official of the Nazi regime of Germany, and was a co-architect of, and participated in the implementation of, the genocide of the Jewish people in Europe by the members of, and by many German and non-German supporters of, the Nazi regime of Germany. From 1941 to 1945, Amin Al Husseini broadcasted “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”-Jewish-conspiracy-theory-based, and orthodox-Islam-based, genocidally anti-Jewish, and anti-United-States, anti-British, and anti-democracy, radio programs, in Arabic, Turkish, and Farsi, the Persian language, to all of the countries in the Middle East from the most powerful shortwave radio station that existed at that time in Germany, Radio Zeesen, which was built for him for that purpose by the German officials of the Nazi regime of Germany. The founder of the Shia branch of the modern Islamic-Supremacist policial movement, Rohulah Khomeini, was, as a young man in Iran, a regular and dedicated listener of those programs that were broadcasted on Radio Zeesen. During World War II, Amin Al Husseini established Muslim S.S. divisions in the balkans which killed several hundred thousand Serbian people, tens of thousands of Jewish people, and tens of thousands of Roma (Gypsy) people. Amin Al Husseini developed plans, with Adolf Hitler, to kill all of the Jewish people in the Middle East. In 1945, after the end of World War II, Amin Al Husseini was captured by Allied forces and was held in France to be tried for war crimes, but was allowed to escape to Egypt by some British and French government officials, most influentially through the efforts of Kim Philby. In 1948, Amin al Husseini’s Nazi Scouts participated in the 1948 Muslim Arab intendedly genocidal attack on the country of the Jewish people, Israel, by the armies of five Arab countries, launched several days after Israel was voted a country in the United Nations. Amin Al Husseini was the mentor and uncle of Egyptian-born Yasser Arafat, who, as an adolecent, had been a member of Amin Al Husseini’s al-Futuwa Nazi Scouts.

    Since 1948, after the 1948 Muslim Arab attack on Israel, until 1967, Jordan occupied what is currently called “The West Bank” (also known as Judea (Youdah) and Sameria), and since 1948, after the Muslim Arab attack on Israel, until 1967, Egypt occupied what is currently called “The Gaza Strip”.

    The 1948 Muslim Arab intendedly genocidal attack on Israel caused 400,000 to 700,000 Arab refugees from Israel and caused 800,000 to 1,000,000 Jewish refugees from Muslim Arab countries. The majority of the Arab refugees from the 1948 Muslim Arab war on Israel had fled from Israel on the instructions of Arab leaders who, right before the 1948 Muslim Arab attack on Israel, had instructed all Arab people to flee from Israel, and explicitely stated that the armies of the attacking Muslim Arab countries were going to annihilate Israel and were going to massacre the Jewish people in Israel. Some few of the Muslim Arab refugees from Israel were expelled from Israel by the army of Israel during the 1948 Muslim Arab intendedly genocidal attack on Israel. Immediately before, and immediately and continuously after, the 1948 Muslim Arab attack on the Israel, the Jewish refugees from Muslim Arab countries, where their families had lived, as oppressed persecuted second-class citizens, for centuries, had their homes and possessions taken by the regimes of those Muslim Arab countries, and were subjected to massive anti-Jewish genocide-inciting rallies and to murderous anti-Jewish riots in those Muslim Arab countries, and were forced to flee for their lives from those Muslim Arab countries. Most of those Jewish refugees from Muslim Arab countries sought and found refuge in, and settled in, Israel. Approximately half of the Jewish population of Israel are the still living of, and are the descendants of, those Jewish refugees from Muslim Arab countries.

    After the end of world War II, the director of the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) official and friend of Kim Philby, Allen Dulles, and other CIA officials, recruited many former German Nazi officials into the CIA. In 1952, some these former German Nazi officals went as CIA agents to Egypt to train the Arab Nationalist Egyptian army of Arab Nationalist Egyptian General Gamal Abdel Nasser and Arab Nationalist Arab volunteer commandos. One of those Arab Nationalist volunteer commandos was Yasser Arafat, and one of those CIA agents who were former German Nazi officials was Otto Skorzeny with whom Yasser Arafat formed a long-lasting friendship.

    After the end of world War II, several thousand German former Nazi officials fled to Egypt and to other Muslim Arab countries, where many of those German former Nazi officials became officials of the so-called “Ministries of Information” of those Muslim Arab countries. Some of those German former Nazi officials converted to Islam.

    In 1957, in Egypt, Yasser Arafat founded the Palestinian Arab Nationalist terrorist militia Fatah (al-Fatah), of which one of the founding members was Mahmoud Abbas. In 1964, the Pan-Arab Nationalist Soviet-supported then-president of Egypt, Gamal Abdel Nasser, and members of the Soviet KGB, founded the Palestinian Liberation Organization (the PLO). In the 1960′s, members of the KGB trained Yasser Arafat at the KGB’s Balashikha special-ops school in Russia, and in the mid-1960s began to groom Yasser Arafat to be the future leader of the PLO. The 1964 PLO charter explicitely stated that the goal of the PLO was the destruction of what the 1964 PLO charter called “the Zionist occupation”, and the 1964 PLO charter explicitely stated that what is currently called “The West Bank”, and which at that time was, and had been since 1948, occupied by Jordan, and what is currently called “The Gaza Strip”, and which at that time, and had been since 1948, occupied by Egypt, were not part of what the 1964 PLO charter called “the Zionist Occupation”, and that the PLO did not claim those areas of land.

    In 1967, after the army of Israel attacked and defeated the armies of several Arab countries that had just prior to then assembled along the borders of Israel in preparation to attack Israel, including the armies of Jordan and Egypt, Israel took, from Jordan, what is currently called “The West Bank” (also known as Judea (Youdah) and Sameria), and Israel took, from Egypt, what is currently called “The Gaza Strip”. In 1968, the PLO charter was changed to state that the land that is current called “The West Bank” and the land that is currently called “The Gaza Strip” are part of what the the 1968 PLO charter calls “the Zionist Occupation”. The 1968 PLO charter states that the methodology of attaining the stated goal of the destruction of what the 1968 PLO charter calls “the Zionist” Occupation” includes any means necessary for attaining that goal, including violent “resistance”.

    In 1969, Yasser Arafat took control of the PLO as the leader of Fatah.

    Hamas was founded in 1988 and is an official arm of the Muslim Brotherhood.

    Fatah and Hamas are in a war with each other for the position of the leadership of the “Palestinian” movement.

    In August 2009, at a conference of the government Fatah-ThePLO-ThePalestinianAuthority, the Fatah-PLO-PalestinianAuthority government, including the President of Fatah-ThePLO-ThePalestinianAuthority, Mahmoud Abbas, officially re-affirmed their adherence to and commitment to the 1968 PLO charter.

  20. Ben says:

    Incognito,
    I agree with many of your points. The “Palestinian myth” was, I think, born in 1964, though, with the creation of the PLO and adoption of the Palestinian National Charter. As originally adopted (in ’64), the Charter basically disclaimed Palestinian territorial sovereignty over the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, and, of course, called for the liberation of Palestine/detruction of Israel. (So when Israel took Gaza and the West Bank in 1967, by the measure of no less than the Palestinian Charter itself, Israel took nothing from the Palestinians. In 1968, the Charter was amended: among other things, the land concessions to Egypt (Gaza) and Jordan (West Bank) were dropped, but not the call to “liberate Palestine”.)

  21. incognito says:

    So when Israel took Gaza and the West Bank in 1967, by the measure of no less than the Palestinian Charter itself, Israel took nothing from the Palestinians

    That is one core fact (though hardly the only one)underlying the conflict which practically all anti-Israel proponents either are ignorant of, in denial of or intentionally ignore.

  22. Ben says:

    That is one core fact (though hardly the only one)underlying the conflict which practically all anti-Israel proponents either are ignorant of, in denial of or intentionally ignore.

    Yup. Another one is this: In the history of the Universe, from its first moment in time until today, just one nation has given land, and offered to give more land, to the Palestinians: the evil Zionist Entity.
    That gets ignored, too.

  23. incognito says:

    Yup. Another one is this: In the history of the Universe, from its first moment in time until today, just one nation has given land, and offered to give more land, to the Palestinians: the evil Zionist Entity. That gets ignored, too.

    That was israel’s fundamental mistake. The west’s mistake was to support the pals as refugees ad infinitum and to pressure israel into giving land.

    I would go so far as to say that the true culprit in preventing peace — indeed, guaranteeing wars — is the so-called “international community”.

  24. Daniel BIelak says:

    “I would go so far as to say that the true culprit in preventing peace — indeed, guaranteeing wars — is the so-called “international community”.”

    Going there so far is just being here and seeing what is the case.

    For the influential leading members of “Western” societies (Jewish-based, Christian and Post-Christians, European-based societies), the problem has always been seen to be “The Effing Jews”, and the solution has always been seen to be to attack “The Effing Jews”.

    Jewish people have remained egocentric, delusional, appeasing, servile, overly empathetic, unmindful, undiscerning, slaves for thousands of years, and unless Jewish people wake up and begin to act like normal human beings and begin to develop mindfulness and discernment, and begin to be mindful and discerning, and become alert to, and protect themselves from, danger, and become aware that the world runs on communication and consensus, and learn to communicate clearly, then what has been happening for the last several thousand years will continue to happen.

    Simple as that.

    I’m as angry at, or more angry at, very many of my fellow Jewish people than I am at our tormentors.

    Wake the eff up.

    “If I am not for myself, who will be? If I am for only myself, who am I?”

    The second part of that saying is, in a detrimental, unbeneficial way, a part of Jewish people’s cultural, and, perhaps, genetic, DNA.

    Jewish people need to realize the first part of that saying.

    If one does not realize the first part of that saying, one will help no one and one will experience only suffering.

  25. Daniel BIelak says:

    “If I am not for myself, who will be? If I am for only myself, who am I?”

    If one realizes the first part of that saying, then one will help oneself, and one will not harm others, and one will free oneself from suffering.

  26. Daniel BIelak says:

    “If I am not for myself, who will be? If I am for only myself, what am I?”

    If one realizes the first part of that saying, then one will help oneself, and one will not harm others, and one will help others, and one will free oneself from suffering, and one will help free others from suffering.

  27. Daniel BIelak says:

    The most important thing for Jewish representatives of Israel need to understand is that the world runs on communication and consensus.

    The belief in the false narrative – the false history – currently held by the majority of people in the world, including almost all of the members of the governments of all Western democratic countries, including almost all of the members of the government of the United States – is what the problem is.

    The problem is the false narrative – the false history – the fabricated history that is made of lies.

    The effort to present the factual history of the situation is the main effort that needs to be engaged in by representatives of Israel and by defenders and protectors of Israel and by defenders and protectors of the whole free world.

    Representatives of Israel and defenders and protectors of Israel and defenders and protectors of the whole free world need to present the factual history of the situation firmly, clearly, and continuously.

    This is what needs to be done.

  28. Daniel BIelak says:

    I apologize for the angry and vitriolic parts of my previous comments. I know that the anger and vitriol is harmful and unbeneficial.

    I’m not angry now.

  29. Cynic says:

    incognito,

    I would go so far as to say that the true culprit in preventing peace — indeed, guaranteeing wars — is the so-called “international community”.

    Hindsight alone provides us with a lot of information about the international community and its involvement in the continuing war by the Arabs against the Israelis.
    Every time that the “Palestinians” got themselves into a fix along came Mom&Pop West with Dollars&Euros to fix the mess and make it possible for them to “play” another day.
    The manner in which the Arab League and the UN have used the “Palestinian” Arabs, to the “humanitarian” applause of the West is a disgrace reducing all those pious aspirations of freedom, liberty, yadda, yadda to mere platitudes devoid of substance.
    At last the GAO is questioning
    Government Accountability Office Report Worries: Does The U.S. Training Palestinian Soldiers Lead to Peace or War

    One new report is “Palestinian Authority: U.S. Assistance Is Training and Equipping Security Forces, but the Program Needs to Measure Progress and Faces Logistical Constraints.” GAO-10-505, May 11. It recounts that the United States has spent $400 million to train, equip, and build facilities for PA security forces.

    Even in the face of the political reality it imagines:

    There are some good reasons for this program, of course. Increasing the PA’s ability to defeat any Hamas overthrow attempt is important, and a better PA security force can maintain order, thus allowing improvements in living standards and–in theory–lay a basis for peace.
    Five battalions have already been trained and six more will be so in future.
    ………….
    What the GAO report basically says is this: How secure is the belief that this training will contribute to stability, peace, moderation, PA support for U.S. policies, or the security forces willingness to fight Hamas or even radicals within Fatah?

    Now where did they dream up this scenario?
    As RL says at the beginning:
    I prefer not to talk about “facts” and “truth” and more about reliable evidence, and accurate interpretations.
    So are we now reduced to selecting the applicable reason for this state of affairs?
    a). Naive
    b). Stupid
    c). Ignorant
    d). A cover up for malicious intent

  30. Daniel Bielak says:

    There has been, and there is, an campaign of war, being waged against the country of the JEwish people, Israel, whose intention is to destroy Israel.

    It is multi-pronged and it is propagandic. The groud for this was is fertile. There is the ignorance about Israel and about Jewish people, and ancient continuing bigotry that is had by almost all people in the world – which is ancient bigotry that began in the same way – was caused in the same way – as has been caused and as is being caused the current bigotry – and there is the utter lack of social perceptivity by very many Jewish people, most importatntly by representatives of Israel, Israeli leaders. Yes, rockets, and terrorist attacks and military attacks need to be defendedd against they are just a tiny part, the catalyzing part, the tiny seed, and also a resulting part of, the of the whole huge propagandic-diplomatic war against israel.

    THe campaign is huge and multi-faceted. The war against the Jewish people is, as have wars against the Jewish people always, being waged with lies. The most influential and lethal of the enemies of the Jewish people who are engagedd in that war being wage with lies are Jewish, and most of the Jewish people who are not engaged in that war unintentionally further the efforts of those who are engaged in that war, and not even just lay prone passively, but, clumsily and awkwardly contort, often with much effort, with a few forceful spastic movements, and unintentionally move toward the weapons of the attackers.

    Western journalists, politicians are the products of decades of Suadi produced Middle East Studies department and Political Science Departments in Universities.

    The academics and intellectuals are the products of the anti-Israeli andit-United-States Soviet-propaganda legacy in the Social Science departments of almost all of the colleges an universities in Western countries.

    Muslim Brotherhood (Hamas, etc) front groups have inflitrated the highest levels of the government of the United States and Brittain and other Western countries.

    Muslim Brotherhood (Hamas, etc) front groups that are the Muslim student groups at colleges and universities and that are waging a war of lies against Israel on college and university campuses in Western countries.

    Iranian regime front groups.

    The OIC instrument called the UNited Nations. The NGOS.

    The situation is huge. I cannot explain the wholoe situation. The campaign that is being waged against the Jewish people, the country of the JEwihs people, is a campaign of lies.

    All of this is made possible only because of the imperceptivity of and lack of right action – lack of protective, countering, action, starting, in this particular case, this particular era, from the 1950′s and 1940′s, and in all cases, in general, throughout several thousand years, from the beginnings of every campaign of war against the Jewish people.

    Communication and consensus. THe world runs by communication and consensus. THe results, the phenomena, that most Jewish eventually percieve are the results of the communication and consensus that very few Jewish people percieve and which are a realm that very few Jewish people engaged in acting in.

  31. Daniel Bielak says:

    “The Paradox of the Jewish Mind – Jews must open their eyes to the reality of the present: Israel is a threatened nation, not only by its immediate enemies, but because it is increasingly regarded and treated as a vilified pariah state”, by David Solway
    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-paradox-of-the-jewish-mind/

  32. Daniel Bielak says:

    …The article in the format of a single page,

    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-paradox-of-the-jewish-mind/?singlepage=true

  33. Daniel Bielak says:

    This article just describes the Jewish people who are complicit in the war.

    There are also the Jewish people who are trying to defend against the war, the attack, but are incompetant, do not understand the nature of the attack, are not able to act in ways that would counter the attack, and even , in most cases, believe that they are countering the attack.

  34. Daniel Bielak says:

    To counter the attack is very simple.

    But it takes skill.

    It is like riding a bike.

    The world rides bikes.

    Jewish people have not learned how to ride bikes.

  35. Daniel Bielak says:

    Jewish people need to learn how to ride bikes.

  36. Daniel Bielak says:

    I did not read all of the article.

    Now that I have read more of the article I realize that the article does, in fact, describe most people who are Jewish who are trying to defend against the war, the attack.

  37. Daniel Bielak says:

    Clarifying Correction:

    “…does, in fact, describe…”

    should be

    “…does, in fact, also describe…”

    There are parts of the article that describe also Jewish people who are trying to defend against attack.

  38. Daniel Bielak says:

    Correction:

    “I did not read all of the article.”

    should be

    “I had not read all of the article.”

    I have now read most of the article. The article is excellent. The article does describe all of what I have been trying to describe.

  39. Daniel Bielak says:

    Correction:

    “…The article does describe all of what I have been trying to describe…”

    should be

    “…The article does describe all of what I have been trying to describe about Jewish people…”

  40. Daniel Bielak says:

    Again, I post the link to the article.

    “The Paradox of the Jewish Mind – Jews must open their eyes to the reality of the present: Israel is a threatened nation, not only by its immediate enemies, but because it is increasingly regarded and treated as a vilified pariah state”, by David Solway
    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-paradox-of-the-jewish-mind/?singlepage=true

  41. incognito says:

    cynic,

    Every time that the “Palestinians” got themselves into a fix along came Mom&Pop West with Dollars&Euros to fix the mess and make it possible for them to “play” another day.

    Indeed, but it is actually worse: they also created the incentives and conditions for the arabs to fight and disincentives to compromise. As long as the Arabs believe that in time they were win (building a nation is hard, destroying another is easier, part. given the arab culture and religion) why should they compromise?
    And the west made sure that their faith in winning was and is realistic. With the US now joining the effort…

    Read the latest piece by Krauthammer on Obama’s intentions to achieve just the consequences that everybody deplore as failures. The common mistakeis that Obama is not anti-american but stupid/incompetent. But the two are not mutually exclusive: he is stupid to be anti-american and incompetent in believing that kissing muslim ass will get him what he deludes himself he will.

    So are we now reduced to selecting the applicable reason for this state of affairs?

    Why not “All of the above?”

  42. Eliyahu says:

    Incog, maybe Obama represents a faction in the Establishment that wants certain outcomes, and his own career is not especially important except insofar as he fosters the desired ends. Maybe the true policy of the obama administration is the zbig bzzzski policy. Recall that Zbig consulted with the present national insecurity advisor about a month ago. And that nat’l insecurity advisor, one Jim Jones, told a tasteless Jewish joke to a mainly Jewish audience. Actually, the joke had been told earlier without any Jewish connection and it was funny. Jones’ version made it ugly.

    It seems that obama & Co. want to build up the Muslim world and form an alliance with the Muslims which will do much to wreck civilization, and give the crowd that obama represents special influence over rival powers, whether Russia, China, India, Europe, South America, etc. Just think if Washington were the only power that could hold back Muslim rage over any imagined insult from the Danes, the French, the Russians, Spaniards, Indians, etc.

    Of course, the Jews stand in the way of such a grand scheme for various reasons, among them, just by being in the Middle East where Israel is located, no matter the ancient presence and predominance of Jews in the land that Rome called Judea.

    And then there are special reasons for hating Jews that predate the Arab-Israeli conflict. On the other hand, although the Muslims resent Israel for traditional Muslim reasons, the Arab govts have other, more pressing concerns. Does Obama want to impose the Iranian bomb on them, and give them Israel’s head in exchange for accepting the Iranian bomb?

    Of course this is all hypothetical. But examine it as a hypothesis to see if it fits recent events, actions and policies of the obama admin since Obama took office in January 2009. What did it mean when Obama described America as a land of “Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus”?? The Jews outnumbered the Muslims at that time. So why did he put Muslims before Jews?
    Why did he bow to the Saudi king, which was not required by protocol?? What about his ridiculous, mendacious and toadying Cairo speech? Why did he fail to mention that Daniel Pearl was murdered both for being a Jew and being an American when he held some sort of ceremony supposedly honoring Pearl at the White House?

    Why are American politicians and diplomats toadying to the mass murderers in Damascus?? by the way, John Kerry, head of the Senate Foreign Relations committee is going there or has been there recently. Then he goes to Europe to talk about int’l affairs. Does he intend to try to impose some sort of Washington line on the Euros??

  43. incognito says:

    Incog, maybe Obama represents a faction in the Establishment that wants certain outcomes, and his own career is not especially important except insofar as he fosters the desired ends.

    Sure, but it’s hard for me to believe that such a self-centered exemplar as Obama does not care about his career not to mention reputation. He can succeed and screwing America, but not in getting Islam to be its buddies.

    and give the crowd that obama represents special influence over rival powers, whether Russia, China, India, Europe, South America, etc.

    Sure, but as we can already see, all these don’t give him the time of day. Once America self-destructs and loses power, what he wants won’t count.

    Of course, the Jews stand in the way of such a grand scheme for various reasons

    Eliminating jewish obstacles will be the easiest part.
    It’s easy in the current atmosphere — which he helps develop — to do that.

    To reiterate: easy to screw America and the jews/Israel. Hard to get the rest to play the rest of his game.

  44. Eliyahu says:

    Youssef Ibrahim of the NYSun, formerly of the NYT, points out that Middle Eastern Christians are expendable in Obama’s quest to toady to Muslims.

    http://www.nysun.com/foreign/coptic-christians-voicing-frustration-with-white/86971/

  45. jordan says:

    In the name of God the Merciful
    The existence of the Zionist entity in the heart of the Arab and Muslim is itself a strange
    Because the Zionist entity is not shared with the Arab world of anything characteristics such as religion, customs
    Traditions and language. The existence of Israel within the Arab world is a big mistake, and constant tension
    In the Middle East, and we note since 1948. Such as the entry of foreign bodies within the human body begins
    Body fever, tension and fatigue and to ensure that until the UFOs.
    To all Arab and Islamic countries to form the Ministry of Defence and one common to all States and the expulsion of the Jews
    From the Middle East. This is the best choice for Arabs and Jews in that one because Bjrdasiraiil within the Arab world
    Will feel the Arab world would not be true of the world would not be true of the Jewish people will never feel the stability and comfort, unless
    Came out of Palestine, all Palestine greetings to all

  46. Eliyahu says:

    Jordan in #46 sure expresses the lovingkindness of the Islamic peoples.
    bismillah ar-rahman ar-rahim….

    Now, Jordan, your own holy book, the Qur’an, tells you in Sura 5, verse 12, that Allah made a covenant with the Sons of Israel. Sura 5, verses 20-22, says that the Holy Land was assigned by Allah to the Jews. Then there is the Sura 17:104 about the Jews coming back to their Land.

    Why can’t you accept the prophecies of your own holy book and live in peace?

  47. Cynic says:

    Jordan,

    The existence of the Zionist entity in the heart of the Arab and Muslim is itself a strange

    Yes, such strange things came about when the Arabs invaded and occupied the Zionist entity’s land centuries ago.
    They also killed and took Mecca from the Zionists.

  48. E.G. says:

    Ahlan jordan,

    Why don’t you let us know on what grounds you think you’re entitled to speak in the name of God?

    And how do you explain the long presence of Jews in Zion, also during the Islamic conquest of that land (Zion), as is well known and published – in Arab documents too – as proof of the legendary Moslem tolerance?

  49. Ben says:

    Jordan,

    So Israel has been a fever, tension and fatigue-inducing “foreign body within the human body” of the
    Arab and Islamic countries since 1948. Wow. 62 years of fever, tension and fatigue. Maybe the Arab and Islamic countries need a good doctor. There are a few in Israe….oops.
    What’s that? All Arab and Islamic countries should work together, you say? Really? Go tell the Arab and Islamic countries that. You’ll get as far as Obama has gotten with the non-Arab, Islamic Persians. And they should all work for the expulsion of the Jews? You mean like almost all of the Arabs have for the last 62 years???? Hmmm. For 62 years, Israel has been a giant pain for the Arabs which have, for the exact same amount of time, worked to get rid of Israel. Coincidence? I think not.
    It’s the old joke: Patient: “Doctor, whenever I drink my cocoa, I get a sharp stabbing pain in my eye.” Doctor: “Try taking the spoon out before you sip.”

    Jordan, it’s that simple: stop trying to get rid of Israel and the Jews and I GUARANTEE your fever, tension and fatigue will go away. If not, sue me for malpractice. Take care of yourself.

  50. incognito says:

    Because the Zionist entity is not shared with the Arab world of anything characteristics such as religion, customs

    Thank god for that, and I’m an atheist.

    In the Middle East, and we note since 1948. Such as the entry of foreign bodies within the human body begins

    Hey, with allah on your side and 1.5 billion vs. 3-5 million why the hell is the entity still there? Have you stopped to think that Allah made you an incompetent failure?

    To all Arab and Islamic countries to form the Ministry of Defence and one common to all States and the expulsion of the Jews

    Heh, heh, right. Thank the jews for being there, otherwise you would have been at each other’s throat.

    Will feel the Arab world would not be true of the world would not be true of the Jewish people will never feel the stability and comfort, unless Came out of Palestine

    Hhmmm, judging by their contant whining it’s the palestinians who suffer terribly, not the Israelis, who seem to be doing much better, thank you.

    There is no need for more than arabs opening their mouth to know how screwed up they are.

  51. incognito says:

    Eliyahu,

    Now, Jordan, your own holy book, the Qur’an, tells you in Sura 5, verse 12, that Allah made a covenant with the Sons of Israel. Sura 5, verses 20-22, says that the Holy Land was assigned by Allah to the Jews. Then there is the Sura 17:104 about the Jews coming back to their Land.

    I hope you’re being facetious and don’t take Allah and the Quran seriously.

    Cynic,

    Yes, such strange things came about when the Arabs invaded and occupied the Zionist entity’s land centuries ago. They also killed and took Mecca from the Zionists.

    C’mon, the zionists are dhimmis, they are not permitted to do what the arabs/muslisms can. Don’t you know that?

    E.G.,

    And how do you explain the long presence of Jews in Zion, also during the Islamic conquest of that land (Zion), as is well known and published – in Arab documents too – as proof of the legendary Moslem tolerance?

    But he just told you that the arabs only noted them in 1948! Leave the guy alone.

  52. incognito says:

    EU Wants PA State to Justify Billions of Euro Funding
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137680

    There are 2 interpretations of this header. Care to guess which one is intended by EU?

  53. incognito says:

    It’s interesting that just when Jordan’s crap popped here I came across the following Lee Smith’s section in THE STRONG HORSE:

    The assumption that democracy was all a plan to set the Arabs at each other’s throats also made sense to many Arabs because it fit with the way they see their own societies. For the Americans, democracy meant investing the Arab man, woman and child with the rights due to any human being. From the Arab nationalist perspective, empowering the Arab individual would necessarily come at the expense of the Arab nation. And weakening the unity of the nation would animate the sectarian monster that has stalked the region for a millenium.

    Nowhere were these fears stronger than in Damascus. For the Syrian regime, democracy would mean an end to the domestic peace cultivated through coercion and repression since the founding of the modern Syrian state, and the unleashing of violence at unprecedently letal levels. Majority rule, meanwhile, would obviously not only spell the demise of the Alawi regime but also threaten the very existence of the Alawi community. As they watched what was happening in Lebanon and Iraq, it was easy for the Arabs to conclude that if representative government meant brother slaughtering brother, then the Americans could keep their precious democracy to themselves. Hatred of American freedoms, the Bush White House liked to say, is why jihadis commit acts of terror against the US. The Sysrian regime reminded the Arab mainstream that it wasn’t American freedoms they hated, but their own. The Arabs feared each other.

    A very persuasive demonstration of how the west operates on their own projection on the ME instead of its reality.

  54. Rich Rostrom says:

    Can’t “read the rest” when the link is defective.

    It starts

    http://http//www.mideasttruth.com/forum/

    Note the problem. However, even when I hand-fix the URL, I can’t access the site – DNS can’t find it. This is probably due to my ISP’s incompetence, but the site could have been taken down since yesterday, when Google last cached it.

    Note to Michael Bielak: if you are going to emit long and detailed explications of “the facts”, then you should have the facts. Dreyfus was a captain, not a general (after his exoneration, he rose to lieutenant-colonel).

  55. Eliyahu says:

    Incog, re your #52, as the Roman general Fabius Maximus & the French phoolosopher Blaise Pascal used to say, I hope you didn’t mean to be insulting.

    I believe in holding the Arabs/Muslims to their own holy writings. AT least once, the Arab spokesman Walid Khalidi said, Maybe God promised the holy land to the Jews but Allah didn’t say so.

    Khalidi said this in an interview for Ted Koppel’s special show on the Israeli-Arab conflict back in Spring 1988.

    Khalidi [a relative of Obama's pal and chief expert on ME history] was appealing to cultural relativism. In other words, the Bible has the Land promised to the Jews but we Muslims don’t know anything about it. That promise was not part of our culture. Hence, Zionism was imposed on us by the West; it was not fair of the West to impose Zionism on us, etc etc.

    However, this is another typical Khalidian lie. There is no room for cultural relativism in regard to the divine promise of the Land. It appears in the Quran too, which is supposedly the revelation of Allah to Muhammad. Likewise, the Jewish return to the Land is foretold in the Quran. That is, Zionism is foretold in the Quran. Yet, Khalidi and other Arabs and pro-Arab spokesmen can get away with such lies because of the general ignorance, among academics too, indeed the eagerness of many in the West to believe such lies.

    So, for the sake of peace, this lie favored by Khalidi [when he thinks he can get away with it] and other Arab and pro-Arab lies have to be vitiated. Which is what I was trying to do. Further, I believe that the Arabs/Muslims and non-Arab Muslims ought to be held to the mandates of their own holy book and/or be forced to explain why they should be exempted from some mandates of the Quran while they speak in its name all the time. This cultural relativist ploy used by Khalidi should be obviated.

    http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/05/quran-agrees-with-zionism.html

    At the same time, I am aware that the promise of the Holy Land to the Jews is cancelled by other Quranic verses. Just about everything peaceful and generous in the Quran is cancelled by another verse or verses [such as the Talmudic borrowing: He who saves one life is as...]. But knowledgeable Muslims like Khalidi cannot pretend –should not be allowed to pretend– that they don’t know of the promise in their own tradition.

  56. Eliyahu says:

    Incog, that quote from Lee Smith is fascinating. Do you recommend his book?

    I recommend the new book by Isaiah Friedman on the early history of the “palestine mandate” and how the UK promoted Arab-Jewish hostility.

    Also, Daniel Pipes summarizes the findings of a new book on how the USA promoted Muslim extremism in Europe and the Muslim Brotherhood going way back into the 1950s. It seems that the US took over a network of Muslim Nazi collaborators after WW2 and expanded its Muslim ties to Sa`id Ramadan, father of Tariq, etc.
    Pipes was working from the book by Ian Johnson, an investigative reporter, ex-WSJ. See D Pipes’ website.

  57. Cynic says:

    As they watched what was happening in Lebanon and Iraq, it was easy for the Arabs to conclude that if representative government meant brother slaughtering brother, …

    This is not quite correct because it is not a case of brother slaughtering brother but a cultural issue of sectarian complexity and this basically reduces to the tribal/clan type of hegemony.

    In Pakistan the Alawi (Nusayri Shiites) sect is under constant assault and no one says anything. The Sunni don’t consider it glatt Muslim.

    Here’s an interesting comment #7 by the blog owner in response to another’s comment. The actual post is interesting in its discussion of the title.
    http://muslihoon.wordpress.com/2006/02/22/shiites-attack-sunnis-after-sunnis-destroy-the-askari-mosque/

    Did you know that the Qizilbash, who invaded and conquered Iran and forced its people to convert to Shiism, was a Sufi sect? That Sufi groups are aligned with the Deobandi movement in South Asia (and the Taliban are, essentially, a Deobandi group)? So the common characterization of Sufis as peaceful or pacifist is not entirely true.
    ………………………………

    I remember that while living in Pakistan, Shiites were considered to be an alien, non-Muslim people. People to be avoided. People of older generations would tell fantastical tales about how Shiites are inhuman and non-Muslim.

  58. E.G. says:

    Eliyahu #56,

    I just saw the Pipes review – and it’s chilling.

  59. E.G. says:

    Cynic #57,

    Yes, without understanding the complex notion of brotherhood in a tribal culture, this sentence may be misleading.

  60. E.G. says:

    Here’s Pipes’ review of Ian Johnson’s book.

    http://article.nationalreview.com/434808/how-islamists-came-to-dominate-european-islam/daniel-pipes

    Looks like there’s some consensus that when in need of unscrupulous assassins – Moslems are it.

  61. incognito says:

    I believe in holding the Arabs/Muslims to their own holy writings.

    If they only really knew their holy writings. They
    usually know only what their imams choose to tell them, and it’s usually only the ugly parts.

    The problem with holy writings is that you can claim almost anything by selective choices and interpretations, according to circumstances and interest.

  62. Eliyahu says:

    Why only holy writings, by the way? Couldn’t the Bolsheviks find different and contradictory positions by Lenin or Marx to justify what any particular faction wanted to do at one moment? Lenin’s “Left-Wing Communism, a Juvenile Disease,” could be used against Trotsky’s Permanent Revolution, etc etc.

    Or what about the Federalist Papers? I am no expert on them? But did the authors agree on every issue?

  63. incognito says:

    Incog, that quote from Lee Smith is fascinating. Do you recommend his book?

    It is only in the sense that it contains some great insights like the one abo ve, but it is uneven in its style and content (not very systematic, somewhat rambling). The main argument in the book is that the war on the west is a way of the arabs to fight each other, which makes sense but only partially.

    I prefer his articles which are listed here:

    http://www.hudson.org/smith

    I make a point of reading each one.

    He has a very good understanding of the ME but it is uneven. More often than not he is brilliant but sometimes he misses. I recall an analysis of the 2nd Lebanon War where he assessed that Nasrallah would lose popularity and power, but that was only a very short-term effect.

  64. incognito says:

    eliyahu,

    I saw the Pipes piece and it it hardly surprised me.
    I have not ever been impressed with US politics and policy like so many are. Lots of myths and gullibility.

  65. incognito says:

    This is not quite correct because it is not a case of brother slaughtering brother but a cultural issue of sectarian complexity and this basically reduces to the tribal/clan type of hegemony.

    Smith’s point is that there is a contradiction between the reality of arab society and its mythical idea of unity which was invented to distract from that reality and used to rule over them. I’ve always said that this explains why there is no Arab democracy whatsoever — a strong horse is required to maintain the myth and prevent the reality from materializing.

    The less effectively coercive the regime the more the “brother slaughtering” occurs, Pakistan being a case in point.

  66. incognito says:

    Why only holy writings, by the way?

    Depends on the definition of holy. I consider bolshevism to be a secular religion with its own holy writings.

    It is not disagreement that counts here, but rather whether we’re talking revealed dogma and whether disagreement is permitted and, if not, what are its consequences.

  67. incognito says:

    Talking about dogma, I just read a book about Lenin’s years in exile. It clearly demonstrates revealed dogma and Lenin’s beliefs of what to do about disagreements.

  68. incognito says:

    Latest Lee Smith piece:

    Jordan Rules
    Amman’s ambassador to Washington talks about the possibilities for Middle East peace
    By Lee Smith
    http://www.tabletmag.com/news-and-politics/34388/heir-jordan/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=heir-jordan

  69. [...] Augean Stables » Palestinian Nakba: Tһе Politics οf Victimhood аחԁ tһе Folly οf tһе West [...]

  70. ARAB MUSLIM says:

    The existence of the Zionist entity in the heart of the Arab-Muslim is in itself a strange
    Because the Zionist entity is not shared with the Arab world, anything that characteristics such as religion, customs
    Traditions and language. The existence of Israel within the Arab world is a big mistake, and constant tension
    In the Middle East also note since 1948. Such as the entry of foreign objects inside the human body begins
    Body fever, tension and fatigue and to ensure even go out foreign objects.
    To all Arab and Islamic countries to form the Ministry of Defence and one common to all States and the expulsion of the Jews
    From the Middle East. This is the best choice for Arabs and Jews in that one because he Bjrdasiraiil within the Arab world
    Will feel the Arab world would not be true of the world would not be true of the Jewish people will never feel the stability and comfort, but if
    Came out of Palestine, all Palestine greetings to all

  71. arabb says:

    There is no democracy in Israel as a state is illegitimate and illegal and not recognized
    Evidence of this if anyone wanted to write a comment in the Israeli websites
    Does not allow him or be there are many obstacles to prevent him from writing a comment The reasons for Arab-Israeli conflict is the occupation of Palestine in 1948.
    Palestine Arab Islamic state like the rest of the Arab and Islamic states surrounding
    Them. Means that there are Jews and Zionists in Palestine a big mistake, because this entity
    Zionist is not consistent with the surrounding area (such as language, customs, traditions and religion)
    The only solution to end the Arab-Israeli conflict is the expulsion of Jews from Palestine
    All of Palestine. The Jewish people will not rest and will not feel comfortable and stability
    But if it gets out of Palestine and the Middle East completely. If people continue to
    Jews in Palestine and the Middle East, the death and destruction will continue.
    Palestine Arab Islamic state and will remain

  72. arab says:

    This is the Zionist terrorism
    There is no state called Israel. State of thieves called Israel a basis of the displacement and killing of Innocent nation of thieves basis bloodshed and war And the arrest of people for tens of years to prevent him from claiming The right to life . basis steal the land of the Palestinian people And then steal the land of the Arab-Muslim the entire .State of the thieves do not know the law ….. Does not recognize the law of the United Nations, a state that considers itself above the law . the law is the siege of Gaza And the bloodshed and destruction of houses and killing innocent people and occupying the country This is a country named Israel thieves.This is the Zionist terrorism

  73. s singh says:

    Why isn’t anyone talking about the corruption of the Rothschild family, and, their role in establishing the state of Israel. The most corrupt family ever to walk the face of the earth.

    • Richard Landes says:

      what’s your evidence they were corrupt? (or what do you mean by corrupt?) the evidence suggests that they made their fortune precisely because they were so reliably honest that people trusted their money with the family. or are you just expressing the attitude that they were part of the “Elders of Zion”?

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