Exchange with an indignant observer on violence aboard the Marmara (composed in the morning)

A correspondent sent me the following this morning and I responded around 10AM. I haven’t posted it till now since I awaited his permission. But I haven’t updated it since.

His statements in bold, my comments in response. I think it’s a good example of the kinds of varying responses that different people have to the same news. The question is, when reliable information finally does come out, will those who jumped to the wrong conclusion change their minds.

I am not enjoying this any more than you are and I appreciate you having returned my e-mail. But you tell me what you think I should believe given the following:

  • That Israeli assault troops illegally boarded peaceful vessels either in international waters or in Gazan territorial waters (which Israel claims is not under occupation).

that’s one way of stating it. Israel’s blockade is of an enemy “state” which has sworn its destruction. the IDF boarded vessels filled with people singing songs about previous massacres of Jews (by Muhammad), organized by two groups with extensive ties to global jihad and its tactics of terror. these folk announced their intention to run the blockade from international waters – that was a declaration of hostile intent – and were duly intercepted. You can fight battles on the high seas.

  • That these troops then opened fire with live ammunition.

they were attacked. do you really think the israelis came on board shooting away? how wd that help? if you believe this, then you enter the same bizarro world of the fotillistas in which they are liberating the poor Gazans from the Nazis.

  • That maybe ten (Haaretz) or sixteen (Al Jazeera) people have been murdered on the high seas and more than 30 wounded.

murdered is a very loaded verb. are you sure they didn’t attack the israelis who boarded? in which case it’s not murder.

  • That while this is less than a quarter of the deaths at Sharpeville it could be four times the number at Kent State, and this incident will always be linked with those other two in infamy.

you’re comparing this with peaceful demonstrations (altho kent state may have had a shooter from behind the students). this may not be an appropriate comparison. you’re jumping ahead of yourself, and it doesn’t sound to me like this pains you. you’re jumping on the “lethal narrative” here without even knowing the full story.

  • That “Trade and Industry Minister Benjamin Ben-Eliezer voiced regret Monday morning for deaths aboard the Gaza-bound ships. “The images are certainly not pleasant. I can only voice regret at all the fatalities,” Ben-Eliezer told Army Radio. (That is quite an admission from somebody from this govenment.).

why? that israelis regret having to kill people. that hardly is an admission that they came down guns blazing. this is just what happened with Al Durah. The IDF expressed regret that the boy had died, esp if they killed him by accident, and people jumped on that as an admission of guilt. I’d hate to have you on my jury – especially if I were innocent.

  • That Netanyahu is reported to be considering flying home from Canada instead of meeting with Obama tomorrow where he was due to be treated warmly as a friend. The coward!


i’m not sure how you get coward from this. is it that you think he’s running away from a dressing down from Obama (which you’d like to see happen?)

    • That Israel has screwed this up big time in a way I never thought even they were capable of. Believe me Richard I never wished for anything like this. But I won’t be the only person this morning who is pretty bloody angry.

  • i don’t understand these regrets on your part. you seem eager to believe the worst and then claim it pains you. why don’t you calm your anger, and find out what happened. it may be that the “peace activists” were nothing of the sort and you’re swallowing the typical “lethal narrative.”

    But feel free to tell me what you believe.

    i’m not sure yet, but i’m willing to bet my guesses right now are closer than yours to the real situation.

    18 Responses to Exchange with an indignant observer on violence aboard the Marmara (composed in the morning)

    1. Sergio says:

      This guy (like the world press) is clearly enjoying another opportunity to bash Israel. His selective “anger” and emotional vent is quite telling.

    2. I am curious to know what the “observer” aboard the ship observed re: weaponry (pipes, axes, knives, etc.)that was immediately used against IDF commandos. Was he actually aboard the Marmara and was he on deck when the troops deployed? During the voyage, did he witness any “Khybar” chanting? Finally, were the passengers trained in any non-violent tactics?

    3. obsy says:

      Given the media we have, I can accept that there are lots of people who have these opinions.

      But this comment?

      That Netanyahu is reported to be considering flying home from Canada instead of meeting with Obama tomorrow where he was due to be treated warmly as a friend.

      What is his source that spawned the idea of “treated warmly as a friend”?

      Do these words mean something different for him?
      Is he an extreme leftist who believes that our media about the harsh relationship between Obama and Israel?
      Does he live in a country where the media lies about the Obama-Israel relationship?
      Or does he ignore his own lie?

    4. obsy says:

      Should have been:
      Is he an extreme leftist who believes that our media lies about the harsh relationship between Obama and Israel?

    5. incognito says:

      From Muqata blog:

      4:18 PM Eyewitness Account: How the flotilla terrorists brutally ambushed the IDF.

      …Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.

      However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.

      One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other “don’t shoot, don’t shoot,” even though they sustained numerous blows. More here at YNETNEWS.

    6. incognito says:

      If so, it was a military failure of 1st rank.

    7. incognito says:

      Pollak has it right and exactly what I have been arguing:

      http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/pollak/303701

    8. incognito says:

      Israel has demonstrated it’s not a strong horse and the consequences will follow like clockwork.

      It sounds to me like a Barak operation. How this corrupt idiot has ever become so decorated, or become a politician escapes me. He has been nothing but trouble for Israel and when his party collpased they should have given his ass a kick to kingdom come.

    9. incognito says:

      http://newledger.com/2010/05/blood-libel-against-israel/

      But even he is not very convinced that it can be helped.

    10. Gaza flotilla fiends attacked soldiers…

      When I first heard about the racist chants the flotilla members trying to sail to Gaza were blaring out (and there may be more about this over here), it was bad enough. Now, we discover that they even tried to attack the boarding soldiers with weapons …

    11. obsy says:

      incognito,

      so why didn’t you warn Israel beforehand?

    12. incognito says:

      so why didn’t you warn Israel beforehand?

      Does this warrant a reply?

    13. JD says:

      “That Israeli assault troops illegally boarded peaceful vessels either in international waters or in Gazan territorial waters”

      The “international waters” meme hit fast, because Jews as breakers of the Law/law is a heavy meme in religious anti-semitism, which has been absorbed into the leftist variety.

      The international law allows boarding when there is an intent to break a blockade. Cuban missile crisis anyone?

    14. obsy says:

      JD,

      the Anti-Israel Propagandists always have a good hook-phrase ready:
      “disproportionate actions”, “white phosphor”, “crippling blockade”, “illegal settlements”, “Palestine”, …, “international waters”

      Just something very catchy about something that the recipient does not understand.
      The only thing we have is: “Pallywood”
      Which is something real in contrast to the concepts linked to the memes above ― but that doesn’t count for much.

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