Gili Explains it all.

From someone with long experience planning “operations.”

  • The preparation could not have been worse. Rather than thinking through the matter from the perspective of the opponent, they expected far less resistance than they got, and they played into the hands of the boat militants.
  • They should have approached with a boarding party from the sea (which they also did), but also gunmen with rubber bullets on higher boats who could keep the gangs on board at a distance. Instead those boarding from the sea couldn’t board.
    They went so far out into international waters because they didn’t want the boarding to happen in daytime when there would be cameras. In fact, the lack of footage of the violence against the IDF is hurting Israel.
  • They had paint guns because they were expecting possible light resistance; and pistols which they weren’t authorized to use unless “necessary” – which took at least 10, by some accounts 40 minutes.
  • This was not an operation for soldiers, but rather units from the SWAT Police, who have more experience with this kind of resistance, than Navy Commandos. But because it was beyond territorial bounds, the Police had no jurisdiction.
  • They could have just disabled the boat by jamming to the propeller and rudder.

Now some of this may be Monday morning quarterbacking. But what is crystal clear now to those not blinded by the “human rights” halo that these groups claimed, and the MSNM adopted, is that this was an ambush. On one level, if Israel had anticipated it, they would have been accused (as they are now, but with no real substance) of provoking the confrontation – of coming in with guns blazing. On another, the lack of preparation for really violent aggression – street fighting if you will – has to surprise anyone paying attention to the chants and swagger of those on the Mavi Marmara.

I personally think that the planners, even as they denounced these folks as terrorists, actually bought into the MSNM narrative about “human rights” activists who would use only “passive resistance.” It’s ironic, but because Israeli military saw the enemy through the medias (deeply distorted) lens, they actually behaved exactly as their enemies wanted. It’s as if the IHH had sat at the table and developed the plan with the Israeli army.

As a result, as one Israeli commented: “We’re shit in the midst of deep shit.”

The operation was, as the Arabs would say, a major fadiha (a nice synonym for f***-up), or as the French put it so delicately, “une bavure” (a drool).

56 Responses to Gili Explains it all.

  1. Michelle Schatzman says:

    This explanation, together with the hypothesis that Richard Lightbrwon offers, i.e. the israeli forces sprayed the ship from above with automatic fire, in order to regain the upper hand, confort my understanding of the events. I thought that it would have been quite difficult for a few men to kill and wound so many only with hand guns.. A pure matter of arithmetic : there are usually six bullets in a hand gun. If 12 commandos descended on the ropes and 2 guns were snatched, that leaves 60 bullets. Making 9+36 =45 hits with 60 bullets is quite a feat of sharpshooting in these conditions.

    They are also consistant with certain testimonies of passengers, who speak of the ship being sprayed with bullets from above.

    My take is that the Israel navy should make e-ve-ry-thing public, including the spraying of the bridge with bullets. If they admitted to weapons being snatched from the commandos, why don’t they admit that they f***cked up real big. Reporting on weapons snatched from commandos is a way of making the low rank men responsible for the debacle. I believe that the authors of the debacle are in the higher echelons of the chain of command. These are the guys who should admit their failures. If there are rotten apples in the IDF, they must go, and serve time if they deserve it.

    I’m not israeli, but I very much want Israel to be safe and in peace.. For this purpose, it needs smart and efficient armed forces.

  2. E.G. says:

    Michelle,

    Is there a reliable source for the “spraying” story? “Passenger” testimonies are not what I’d consider trustworthy.

    According to the Israeli press there were more than 12 commandos on board.

  3. E.G. says:

    RL,

    I strongly oppose using either “Fadiha” (self-ridiculing botch-up) or “Bavure” (unintended, gone out-of-control botch-up).

    Unless of course you think this IDF operation is the equivalent of the US operation “Eagle Claw” in 1980.

  4. obsy says:

    Michelle,

    the IDF is an army. It does not want its opponents to know how they operate. You have to understand that they are a bit sensitive with releasing unchecked information. There are probably even rules that forbids them to do it.

    I read about 30 soldiers. Soldiers can carry additions ammunition even when they have only one gun.
    I read about 10-40 minutes of fighting before the use of Israeli fire. That is enough time to injure a lot of people – you don’t need guns for this.

    I haven’t seen the IDF lie to their advantage. I know that they have confessed kills that they haven’t done, but I don’t know of a case the other way round.

  5. David Galant says:

    Michelle:

    Not to be pedantic, but semi-automatic 9mm pistols with 15 bullet magazines (plus 1 round in the breech) are common as military and police weapons.

  6. obsy says:

    Should have been “additional” not “additions”.

    I forgot to ask:

    If the IDF shot wildly into the crowed from above, why were so few soldier hit with bullets?

  7. Michelle Schatzman says:

    Obsy, your last observation is appropriate. And yes indeed, soldiers can carry more ammunition and recharge, and there has been probably more than 12 soldiers on board.

    I had a short initiation to shooting at a target as an 11 years old kid. Shooting accurately at a still target when you are quietly lying down on your belly is already not so simple.

    I can easily imagine that shooting with a hand gun, even from close, when your target is moving, and you are in the midst of a frightening situation is really difficult.

    But I just can’t take out of my mind the image of these guys sliding into a hornest nest. The first two or three soldiers could not know what would happen. But wasn’t there someone on board the helicopter, who was looking at what was going on down on the ship, who could have changed the orders, or radioed out to sak for permission for change?

    What will the IDF do about the next “humanitarian” ships?

  8. incognito says:

    That it was a debacle was clear to me as soon as I read the 1st article on the operation; when I saw the videos it became crystal clear. It looked stupid.

    I agree with Michelle: not only should Israel come clean, but heads should roll, the 1st being the asshole Barak. Turns out he’s not better than Peretz/Halutz, decorations and all.

    What nobody paying attention too is the effect of Israel displaying not only unwillingness to fight to win, but also gullibility and stupidity at the high echelons. This is like a red flag to the arab/muslim bull. It can also be exploited by Obama to blackmail Israel for dangerous concessions in return for some useless support at the UN. And the assholes in the Israeli govt will dance to the music.

    I mean, look at that govt: made of retreaded failures — Barak, Bibi, Peres and a bunch of nobodies. Not one new, clean, smart leader. If that’s the only leadership
    Israel can produce it has no future.

  9. incognito says:

    It looks like not only the west swallow the propaganda of the islamists (“they won’t use violence”) and ignore them when they reveal themselves (“Khaybar, Khaybar”), but the Israeli army too!!!!

    Problem is Israel will disappear much faster than the west.

  10. incognito says:

    Not to be pedantic, but semi-automatic 9mm pistols with 15 bullet magazines (plus 1 round in the breech) are common as military and police weapons.

    Yes, but not very useful for 12 soldiers sliding on ropes individually into dozens of cruel murderers, and who were told not to shoot no matter what.

  11. incognito says:

    But I just can’t take out of my mind the image of these guys sliding into a hornest nest.

    My instinctive reaction precisely.

    The first two or three soldiers could not know what would happen. But wasn’t there someone on board the helicopter, who was looking at what was going on down on the ship, who could have changed the orders, or radioed out to sak for permission for change?

    That’s what surprise will do to you. It is clear watching that’s what practically paralyzed command.
    They did not expect and therefore plan for such a development. For SPECIAL FORCES this is a fadicha of first order.

    What will the IDF do about the next “humanitarian” ships?

    If I had to guess, 1 of 2 possibilities: nothing (“we had enough of this”) or blazing guns (to prove the exact opposite). Either a disaster. Israel is pushing itself into no way to win circumstances.

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  13. Lorenz Gude says:

    Why is Israel so good at conventional warfare but has great difficulty avoiding this kind of trap? I think some of the reason is that the Israeli government and its military may be stuck in an industrial age view of how the world works. A world where long established institutions can be disintermediated. The Israeli people in charge of such operations are perhaps like the print reporters who continue to see their role as controlling the narrative. Such reporters don’t see that they are sometimes just another node on the network and devise new models where they engage their readers on more equal terms. In short, the Israeli government and military officials don’t seem to get it that are fighting a cognitive war. They are behaving like an ordinary state actor with blockades interdicting blockade runners. They are operating with 20th century assumptions about their task where only they would know the details of the actual interdiction. The flotillistas were looking to score a cognitive war propaganda victory in a 21st century media environment where we know pictures will be taken and they will get out. The pictures are the weapons and they don’t even have to get into Gaza – just up linked and distributed to the media. For example, early in the Iraq war in Tal Afar a chopper was shot down and a huge battle developed over the downed craft. What ended it was s special truck equipped with mechanisms to cut up and haul away downed aircraft. Once it had loaded the pieces on the truck, the fighting ceased. It was all about getting footage of the “Blackhawk Down’ moment. So in the recent Israeli case both sides would have been well advised to uplink by satellite and get as much footage to their editing rooms as quickly as possible. Wasn’t it obvious that the whole flotilla idea was an attempt at scoring a propaganda victory? It is a difficult combination of dealing with the MSNM which are still 20th century narrative controlling organizations – mostly hostile with 21st century level access to many sources of activist film which can be uploaded very quickly.

    It sure looks like the Israelis thought that the passengers were all idealistic activists not jihadis spoiling for fight. Yes, RL it sounds so far like they bought the MSNM view, but it was also an intelligence failure to not know who was on the ships and and what mischief they might get up to and plan on how to counter it.

  14. incognito says:

    Lorenz,

    Much of what you say is correct. It probably fits Barak who is still fighting the old wars. That’s generally true of most security forces

    It may also be a consequence of the jews in finally having a state: they insist of behaving like one, without realizing that their state can be treated the same by anti-semitic states as jews were without one.

  15. Michelle Schatzman says:

    Lorenz and incog, I am pretty much on the same wavelength as you. I am not sure that Brak is the main culprit. More like a negligent attitude, a hakol yihiyeh beseder, which justifies forgetting rules.

  16. Jonathan Levy says:

    The first two or three soldiers could not know what would happen. But wasn’t there someone on board the helicopter, who was looking at what was going on down on the ship, who could have changed the orders, or radioed out to ask for permission for change?

    The first few soldiers went down the rope not knowing what would happen. The rest went down the rope knowing full well what was waiting for them, but they were not about to abandon their friends.

    Once the first man goes down, they all go down.

  17. Jonathan Levy says:

    Everyone’s rushing to find someone to blame for the fiasco. I’ve had a few thoughts about this.

    1) The soldiers did the best they could given an impossible situation. They are not to blame. Conversely, the Prime Minister cannot be expected to stick his nose into the tactical details of every military operation. He must trust the judgement of his officers.

    Bad mistakes were made, but they were made somewhere in the middle of the chain.

    2) I vaguely recollect a quote by Winston Churchill, after the failure of a naval expedition against a French colony in Africa after the capitulation of France. He said that we should not deal harshly with a commander whose only failure was in misjudging an enemy. In war, one must always act without perfect knowledge of the enemy, and if every mistake is punished by dismissal, you will very quickly be left with officers who lack initiative.

    Perhaps the calls for heads to roll are misplaced?

  18. E.G. says:

    Will someone be kind enough to explain me why Israel has just suffered a debacle?
    I fail to see the failure you all see.

  19. xm says:

    “It sure looks like the Israelis thought that the passengers were all idealistic activists not jihadis spoiling for fight. Yes, RL it sounds so far like they bought the MSNM view, but it was also an intelligence failure to not know who was on the ships and and what mischief they might get up to and plan on how to counter it.”" thats not true in fact they prepared as to faced jihadist and not activists (ok mob) with … clubs. DO you thing that if they were even 1 Israeli dead by gunfire that the outcry would be such as the one your are presently facing?
    The brave thing is to act with moral contemplation of your actions not with a brutal WWII German like 100 foe dead for one of us mentality.

    The soldiers were brave but they prepared them for the wrong mission. And i repeat were was the massive tear gas, the stunt grenades the massive amount of hands that an anti riot situation demanded, the shields the personell body armor or even the rubber bullets?

    An antiriot unit with navy commando backing would have performed MUCH better

  20. igout says:

    Israeli is the technically advanced country, yet it’s the zombies from the 7th century who are so much smarter about exploiting the world-media for their own murderous ends.

    When the commandos board the next vessel, as they must, they should take every care to find weapons and munitions, even if they must plant them themselves. Can’t let the enemy have a monopoly on pious frauds.

  21. incognito says:

    I am not sure that Brak is the main culprit. More like a negligent attitude, a hakol yihiyeh beseder, which justifies forgetting rules.

    I did not say he was the main culprit, but as defense minister with his kind of background, he is responsible. Not just for this fiasco but others before it.

    He is corrupt, opportunistic, arrogant, has no political antenae and still believes in land for peace and is essentially a self-centered ass-kisser. Even his own party does not want him.

  22. incognito says:

    Jonathan,

    Agreed on the soldiers — they were not the problem.

    But those responsible for approving the recommendations, particularly Barak because of his job and background. The intelligence failure — actually total absence of — is stunning.

  23. incognito says:

    Israeli is the technically advanced country, yet it’s the zombies from the 7th century who are so much smarter about exploiting the world-media for their own murderous ends.

    It’s much easier for the barbarians, because of the useful idiots in the west who seem to have undergone lobotomies.

    When the commandos board the next vessel, as they must, they should take every care to find weapons and munitions, even if they must plant them themselves. Can’t let the enemy have a monopoly on pious frauds.

    It’s against my instincts, but it’s very tempting. I’m not sure Israel is sufficiently good at lying though.

  24. igout says:

    To refine my suggestion:

    If somehow the makings of a dirty bomb were planted on the ship while loading, then the Israelis wouldn’t have to lie, at least not the boarding party. As a bonus, the peace activists should learn to their distress that they’re now as hot as chili peppers, having ridden on top of the thing all the way from Turkey.

    I must say, this is fun. Hoping very much the Israelis can get themselves in the mood.

  25. E.G. says:

    igout,

    Can’t you find a more interesting conspiracy theory?

  26. igout says:

    EG:

    Not a theory. A suggestion. Have you any?

  27. E.G. says:

    igout,

    Yes.

  28. Ray in Seattle says:

    My suggestion – forget about deception. That’s not Israel’s game or nature. Israel has a right to defend itself. It should just do that to the best of its ability with the resources it has and let the chips fall where they may. Israel can lessen the impact of the cog war by stating upfront to the world that it absolutely will not allow cargo into Gaza unexamined. Any attempt to subvert that requirement will be met with as much force as necessary – even more than necessary – and including against any state actors such as Turkey or Syria who wish to get involved.

    And then Israel must be willing to go to WWIII to prove that it means what it says. If it is not willing to do that then Israel should evacuate and give the place to the Arabs right now. I believe that Israel will be forced to make such a choice in the near future anyway and must be prepared to go one way or the other. Iran-Syria-Turkey will never have a better opportunity than now and I expect they realize that.

    Israel has been fighting a half-assed war of self defense since 1967 – just enough to forestall immediate attacks while hoping to appease world opinion. This last debacle is just the latest in a long string of sad examples. It’s time for Israel to stand up for itself using as much lethal force as necessary – and then some more for good measure – enough to completely eliminate future threats from whatever quarter it comes – or quit the game.

    Israel indisputably lost this skirmish because the Rachel Corrie is on its way. There’s no way that would be happening if the Israel govt./IDF had made the right decisions. That doesn’t mean killing everyone in the flotilla. It perhaps means imprisoning those involved as POW’s engaged on Hamas’ side against Israel, to be released when Hamas calls off hostilities and changes their charter. Releasing them to show the world how reasonable Israel is will result in a 12 boat flotilla next month.

    Then, all the ships should be towed out to international waters where the Israeli navy will use them for target practice. The videos can be used to show what will happen to the next ship that tries to break the blockade.

    Israel’s greatest weakness is its need to be liked. The Arabs know this and use it to the hilt. Israel must decide whether it wants to be liked or to exist. It’s not Israel’s fault that the Arabs have imposed this ugly choice on them (with the help of useful idiots in the West) – but now Israel must make the choice or they will end up being both hated by the world and destroyed which seems to be the way things are headed.

  29. incognito says:

    One thing Israel could and should do is offensively expose the utter hypocrisy, lies., failure to fulfill promises and muslim kiss-assing of its world critics.

    It will not change their behavior, but is likely to shut them up a bit.

    If they screw Israel anyway, Israel should at least be honest about it rather than appeasing.

  30. Ray in Seattle says:

    incog, I’d like to see them exposed too – but I think that the world needs to come to that conclusion themselves. Israel saying it won’t work. IMO Israel’s best strategy is to stop worrying about being liked and start kicking some justified ass. If and when that happens many in the world will start to wonder if maybe Israel isn’t such an evil empire after all.

    Israel reeks of “kick-me” responses to threats against its people. “Oh dear, what could we do? We thought the activists were peaceful. We didn’t want to disable the ships because it would take too long and the passengers would get thirsty – and then everybody would hate us. So we came down the ropes with paint guns. See how trusting and peaceful and non-threatening we tried to be?”

    Israel’s pathetic statements to the press justifying its (stupid) actions are making every Jew-hating leftist in the West want to sign up for the next Gaza blockade-breaking adventure where they know they will get kid-glove treatment and a chance to be on TV where they can tell the world how the “brutal IDF” mistreated them so horribly.

    Israel should not be asking for anyone’s approval. Israel should be warning that these idiots got off too easy and that it won’t happen again. That far worse consequences are in store for any future attempts to break the blockade. I’m seeing a little of that from some down the chain of command but this needs to come from the top. Netanyahu needs to stand tall and give Israel’s critics a big middle finger.

  31. Lorenz Gude says:

    Ray from Seattle: Those are sobering words and a sharp reminder that we probably nearing a decisive time. The buildup by Hezbolla in Lebanon sounds serious and Michael Totten reported several month ago that their morale was sky high and they were spoiling for a fight. I would assume that they are being held back by their Irainian masters until Iran can complete the bomb project. Meanwhile they are building up the scuds and other weaponry in Syria and Lebanon. So the harassing techniques like the flotilla continue for now, but it seems pretty clear that war will break out once Iran gets the bomb. To wait may mean that Israel’s enemies get the chance to dictate the time and conditions of their choosing. I have backed off the view that Israel should take out the Iranian nuke program if they can of late. Now my thinking is changing back.

  32. Cynic says:

    Ray,

    Here’s the situation Israel is faced with where the UN can now get international sanctions and starve the country
    Obama Abandons Israel to UN Feeding Frenzy

    In the past twenty-four hours United Nations bodies have engaged in a frenzied attack on Israel over the Turkish-facilitated effort to end the naval blockade of Hamas-controlled Gaza. In the process, the Obama administration’s Israel policy has been outed.

    With virtually unprecedented speed and only hours to go before the Lebanese presidency of the UN Security Council expired at midnight on May 31st the Council unanimously agreed on a Presidential Statement – with American approval. And in Geneva, the UN Human Rights Council (HRC) unanimously decided to invent new procedural rules and hold its first-ever “urgent debate”, with no objection from the United States.

    The Obama administration had options. In the past, the United States has avoided efforts to railroad presidential statements or resolutions through the Security Council by allowing only so-called “press statements” made on behalf of just some of its members.

    It’s not only the Israelis who have been deluded but also those American Jews who thought that Israel had an ally in the UN.

  33. Cynic says:

    This is what Jeff Jacoby thinks
    Obama, Israel & American Jews: The Challenge

    LONG BEFORE his election as president, it was clear that Barack Obama felt little of the traditional American warmth for Israel or any particular repugnance for the enemies that Israel and America have in common. As Commentary’s editors suggest, his exceptionally close ties to the man he described as his spiritual mentor, the Israel-bashing Reverend Jeremiah Wright, should have given pause to any pro-Israel voter. So should the persistence with which he vowed to undertake direct presidential diplomacy with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad — the virulently anti-American, anti-Israel, anti-Semitic president of Iran — “without preconditions.” Yet many American Jews chose to give Obama the benefit of the doubt, telling themselves that he could be numbered, as Alan Dershowitz wrote at the time, “among Israel’s strongest supporters.”

    Only the willfully blind could believe that now. And many American Jews are willfully blind.
    ………..
    ………….
    To be sure, in 2012 Obama is unlikely to duplicate the 78 percent of Jewish votes he drew in 2008. But will American Jews turn away from him en masse? Don’t bet on it. “F— the Jews,” Obama’s advisers can tell him. “They’ll vote for us anyway.”

    To be sure Israelis are in a bind.

  34. incognito says:

    Israel saying it won’t work. IMO Israel’s best strategy is to stop worrying about being liked and start kicking some justified ass.

    Exactly right, but exposure of hypocrisy is part and parcel of the strategy you specify! That’s one way you show them you don’t worry about being liked. Of course, this does not mean and I did not imply that it’s the only way to kick ass.

    Israel reeks of “kick-me” responses to threats against its people.

    It also reeks of the jewish tradition — same in the 30′s and now in diaspora. Looks like the notion of being a state has not entirely removed that instinct.

    Israel’s pathetic statements to the press justifying its (stupid) actions are making every Jew-hating leftist in the West want to sign up for the next Gaza blockade-breaking adventure

    Exactly the point I made earlier. Now they discuss relaxing the Gaza blockade. So why exactly did they go thru the fiasco in the first place?

    Israel should be warning that these idiots got off too easy and that it won’t happen again.

    Ah but you see, now it is unlikely that it’ll be believed they have the guts. It will indeed attract repetition of attempts and I have a strong feeling that the current leadership of Israel will fold.

    What they are doing is self-destructing, just like the west, except Israel will vanish much faster.

  35. incognito says:

    Ray from Seattle: Those are sobering words and a sharp reminder that we probably nearing a decisive time.

    Practically all articles I read today by writers whom I respect argue that Turkey behavior is the direct consequene of American weakness and its dumping of Israel. What we are watching is the crumbling of American power. Things happen independent of America, who has no say in it — witness their behavior at the UN the other day.

    Does anybody think that Turkey would have dared to behave the way it does had America not collapsed?
    As it is it now dares to compete with America and Iran for ME power. And you know what: I won’t bet on the US.

    I’ve been predicting this for years but got nothing but ridicule for it.

  36. incognito says:

    It’s not only the Israelis who have been deluded but also those American Jews who thought that Israel had an ally in the UN.

    Not so much Israelis as the so-called American jews, which are nothing of the kind. Jeff Jacoby is if course correct.

    Like the 30′s jews they are assimilated to the point where they delude themselves that they will no longer suffer anti-semitism. Israel for them is more of a moral inconvenience, reminding them that they chose affluence and convenience over their jewishness. They wouldn’t mind Israel going away so that they won’t be in any way associated with it. And to be honest, I wish they would get an education of what happens when you act that way.

  37. incognito says:

    Further evidence of what happens when you treat nutters nicely:

    http://www.viciousbabushka.com/2010/06/flotilla-peace-activists-riot-attack-security-officers-at-tel-aviv-airport.html

    Yet more validation that being nice breed contempt in these people and the only thing they respect is power/force.

    Note that they are Europeans!!! Although I suspect of ME origins.

  38. incognito says:

    MUST READ by Hanson:

    http://victorhanson.com/articles/hanson060110.html

    When I was arguing this a long time ago, it was dismissed.

  39. incognito says:

    Turkey and Israel close to brink
    DEBKAfile DEBKA-Net-Weekly June 2, 2010, 12:34 PM (GMT+02:00)

    Tags: Israel Pro-Hamas flotilla Turkey
    Turkish prime minister squares off against Israel

    The war projected between Israel and the Iran-led bloc of Syria, Hizballah and Hamas is suddenly overshadowed by Turkish-Israeli hostilities over a deadly Israeli commando raid on an aid flotilla from Istanbul. Against the US president Barack Obama’s bid to bridge the rift, Turkish generals are drawing up plans to break Israel’s Gaza blockade and avenge 9 deaths, while Israel is bound by its war on terror to thwart them – bringing both to the brink of overt hostilities.

  40. jay says:

    “Will someone be kind enough to explain me why Israel has just suffered a debacle?
    I fail to see the failure you all see.”

    Me, too.

    They stopped the flotilla.

    A few people got killed.

    So what?

    Being ashamed of this only plays into the hands of the MSM, the Israel-bashers and the nervous nellies.

    I’m sorry more people weren’t killed.

    They got what they deserved.

    i agree. it’s just that that’s not what this was about. you may have captured the pawn but you lost a rook. You can’t win this way.
    as for apologies – i cdn’t agree more. it’s really just continuing to play into the script they’ve written for us (ie not just israel but the west).
    -rl

  41. Ray in Seattle says:

    Cynic @32, Yes, Many American Jews have become deluded. I had very bad feelings about voting for Obama but it was American Jews that convinced me that he would be a strong supporter of Israel.

    PS Sorry I missed your comment earlier. I had to reinstall Vista a few days ago and I still don’t have everything back in place yet – like Google Reader for my blog subscriptions.

  42. Daniel Bielak says:

    Ray,

    “I had very bad feelings about voting for Obama but it was American Jews that convinced me that he would be a strong supporter of Israel.”

    I, to my shame, was, I regret, and I have remorse for having been, one such similar Jewish person – a Jewish person who was wishfully thinking, and partially ignorant, and duped (lied to by Obama, and wishing to believe Obama). I voted for Obama, and I wrote to some family members and some friends of the family (including friends of the family who are a non-Jewish family) to urge them to vote for Obama.

    I wishfully overlooked Obama’s bigoted racist anti-Jewish mentor, Jeremiah Wright, because I thought that I held the same anti-pollution, ant-destruction-of-earth views, as I thought that Obama did, and because I thought that Obama would protect Israel, because I was persuaded about that by what I heard Dennis Ross say in support of Obama, and because I thought Obama would, unlike what I thought what John McCain would do, protect Jewish people from being oppressed by religious Christian fanaticism in the United States, because I was persuaded about that by what I heard Alan Dershowitz say about Obama.

    I apologize to Jewish people who were more aware than I was, and, maybe, who were more decent, than I was.

  43. Daniel Bielak says:

    Correction:

    “…ant-destruction-of-earth views…”

    Should be,

    “…anti-destruction-of-the-earth views…”

  44. Daniel Bielak says:

    I’d take governmentally non-enforced, non-totalitarian, non-violent, American religious Christian fanaticism over Islamic-Supremacism any day.

  45. Daniel Bielak says:

    “…governmentally non-enforced, non-totalitarian, non-violent, American religious Christian fanaticism…”

    I know that that wouldn’t really be fanaticism though, compared to what I now know are some other situations.

  46. Ray in Seattle says:

    Daniel, To be clear, I take responsibility for my decision and don’t blame others for it. But it’s hard not to take seriously the opinions of articulate intelligent Jews who are strong supporters of Israel – such as Alan Dershowitz – on these matters. I ask myself who am I, a non-Jew who has never been to Israel, to second guess their judgment. Well, I have my own experience and intuition and I also should ask who am I not to place my ultimate trust in that. So, I am the one who made the choice – not anybody else.

    Then, there’s the existential puzzle that always appears over such questions. Since he wasn’t elected no one knows what would have happened if McCain had become president – it could have been much worse (or better) than this and we’ll never know.

    No matter. Each day we must play the cards we hold and try to make the best of it from that day forward. Looking back is a distraction except for whatever lessons can be learned.

  47. incognito says:

    But it’s hard not to take seriously the opinions of articulate intelligent Jews who are strong supporters of Israel – such as Alan Dershowitz – on these matters.

    Articulate intelligent people make mistakes, and the easiest mistake is to be in denial. That’s why is important to listen to articulate intelligent people opposed to one another to make decisions.

    But most important is to educate yourself and gather as much evidence as you can — also from different sources — and then judge those people based on that.

    Since he wasn’t elected no one knows what would have happened if McCain had become president – it could have been much worse (or better) than this and we’ll never know.

    I doubt McCain would have been a good president, but he wouldn’t have been a transformative presidents and he had SOME experience.

    No matter. Each day we must play the cards we hold and try to make the best of it from that day forward. Looking back is a distraction except for whatever lessons can be learned.

    Unless there is collapse.

  48. jay says:

    ” agree. it’s just that that’s not what this was about. you may have captured the pawn but you lost a rook. You can’t win this way.”

    Let’s wait a while before saying that Israel lost a rook.

    Seems to me that Turkey has blown its cover and within the next year or two you will be reading many articles about how it is a strategic liability and should be expelled from NATO (not that it can be, but that it should be).

  49. rl says:

    i’m with you. the israelis cd actually, with the help of a West of sound mind, take a queen in this exchange, if they made the right moves. but the rook we lost was the collapse of another whole level of support and the contribution to global jihad warming. we may be able to reverse it, but even if we do (here i speak for the west) it will be something good that comes out of bad. this is not good right now and on some impt level the problem stems from some critical errors of judgment in israel.

  50. Daniel Bielak says:

    Ray, I appreciate your comment, and I agree with your comment.

    incognito, I agree with your comment, except for the last sentence that you wrote in your comment.

    Ray wrote the following.

    “Each day we must play the cards we hold and try to make the best of it from that day forward. Looking back is a distraction except for whatever lessons can be learned.”*

    I agree.

    I try to be mindful of that right teaching and I try to act in accordance with that right teaching. I often am not mindful of that right teaching and I often do not act in accordance with that right teaching; but sometimes I am mindful of that right teaching and sometimes I do act in accordance with that right teaching – especially when I am reminded of that right teaching.

    * text put in bold by me

  51. incognito says:

    Seems to me that Turkey has blown its cover and within the next year or two you will be reading many articles about how it is a strategic liability and should be expelled from NATO (not that it can be, but that it should be).

    Gee, judging by Obama, just the opposite will happen. He wants Turkey to help resolve the problem of Gaza. And Erdogan is considering it: a flotilla protected by Turkey navy.

    Kicking Turkey out of NATO has zero probability: the west is desperate to appease it and will excuse whatever Turkey does. In fact, they’ll be happy to contract out the job of screwing Israel to it.

  52. jay says:

    rl:

    “i’m with you. the israelis cd actually, with the help of a West of sound mind, take a queen in this exchange, ”

    Ha! Let’s hope. It’s also possible to sacrifice your queen and WIN:

    http://www.bobby-fischer.net/game_of_the_century_chess.htm

    But I digress….

    “if they made the right moves. but the rook we lost was the collapse of another whole level of support and the contribution to global jihad warming”

    What WAS this level of support? Who are these people? Leon Wieseltier? Gimme a break.

    The responses to this thing are very revealing, almost like a diagnostic. Joe Biden was great, brave words of wisdom: “What’s the big deal?”

    Helen Thomas said Juden Raus. Couldn’t have scripted it better myself.

    All the crazies who we know hate Israel, revealed themselves as crazies who hate Israel. Big frikkin deal.

    The operative truth here is:

    Turkey has come out of the closet as a state in deep decay, run by maniacs. It isn’t an enemy state but the government is an enemy government.

    When push comes to shove, NO country, not France, not Russia, not China, no country (except maybe Venezuela) is going to support the idea of anarchy on the high seas.

    Regarding the global jihad warming, I say, whatever. Anything and everything makes them crazy.

    Hang tough Israel. Don’t let the bastards rattle you, don’t blink, and don’t give in to terrorism.

  53. incognito says:

    And the asshole Ban at the UN wants Turkey to investigate the flotilla incident.

    Couldn’t find a more objective party myself.

  54. incognito says:

    All the crazies who we know hate Israel, revealed themselves as crazies who hate Israel. Big frikkin deal.

    It is when they usually kept quiet and now feel the time is right to go public. It certainly was in the 30′s when this happened.

    When push comes to shove, NO country, not France, not Russia, not China, no country (except maybe Venezuela) is going to support the idea of anarchy on the high seas.

    You think so? The pirate situation does not exactly show that, does it? With some exceptions they prefer to pay to get their vessels back. And methinks appeasement is what they’ll do if Iran and Turkey decide to throw the gauntlet.

    Hang tough Israel. Don’t let the bastards rattle you, don’t blink, and don’t give in to terrorism.

    Don’t bet on it — Israel leadership is inexistent.
    And there is a limit to what Israel can do if all the world turns and takes steps against it, short of playing the crazy state, which is the only thing that can save it.

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