High(er) Definition footage of the battle on the Mavi Marmara

Turkish CNN Footage from boat during fight 31.05.10: highest definition available, you can see soldier being swarmed with sticks, stabbed near a door, and a soldier with face wound.


Israeli thermal footage of battle on top deck 31.05.10: taken from above.


Israeli thermal footage of the attack on IDF soldiers 31.05.10: taken from boat alongside before dawn. you can see one soldier thrown down to the lower deck, lots of sticks beating soldiers.

54 Responses to High(er) Definition footage of the battle on the Mavi Marmara

  1. obsy says:

    Turkey banned IHH from doing earthquake relief

    Turkey understands how the IHH is a jihadist organization masquerading as humanitarian.

    http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2010/06/turkey-banned-ihh-from-doing-earthquake.html

  2. Um… Where’s the ‘Turkish’ part? All those clips are from Israeli Channel 1.

  3. obsy says:

    Egypt opens Gaza border after Israel ship clash

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6502H820100601

  4. E.G. says:

    I’m sorry, these are not battle images. This is footage of beating.

  5. E.G. says:

    ’20 people threw me from deck’
    Officer who led IDF raid on Marmara recounts battle onboard ship, says surprised by strength of resistance. ‘I cocked my weapon when I saw that one was coming towards me with a knife drawn and I fired once. Then another 20 people came at me from all directions and threw me down to the deck below’
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3897486,00.html

  6. incognito says:

    Looks like I was not off the mark, to put it politely. Note that the govt still fails at justification.

    Two more boats head for Gaza as Israel vows to stop them
    DEBKAfile Special Report June 1, 2010, 11:33 AM (GMT+02:00)

    With two more vessels due to set sail in the next 48 hours to continue the challenge to Israel’s Gaza blockade, Deputy Defence Minister Mattan Vilnai admitted Tuesday, June 1 that the Israeli commando seizure of the six-boat Gaza-bound flotilla Monday, May 31 had its faults. But he stressed the mission was nonetheless bravely accomplished. None of the six vessels reached Gaza port – albeit with regrettable loss of life. While the IDF would learn from its mistakes and do things differently, access to Gaza would continue to be blocked for as long as the Hamas-ruled territory was at war with Israel.
    The deputy minister contemptuously dismissed furious demands at home for defence minister Ehud Barak to resign, saying the critics had “never go their feet wet.” Images of Israeli elite commandos beaten with iron bars – one was thrown off the top deck – have infuriated Israelis.
    Vilnai admitted: We underestimated the murderous intentions of the activists aboard the Turkish Marmora vessel and the force of international reaction to televised shots of a brutal situation – real battles never look good on television, he said. In that sense, the organizers of the Turkish-led international expedition achieved their aim. And indeed the UN Security Council early Tuesday capped the chorus of international disapproval by calling for Israel to conduct a prompt, impartial, credible and transparent investigation of the flotilla incident, condemning acts causing loss of civilian lives and requesting the immediate release of ships and civilians held by Israel.

    Vilnai dismissed the avowed humanitarian aims of the convoy, reiterating that the people of Gaza are not hungry; neither is there any humanitarian crisis. Israel supplies its basic needs. Life there is certainly hard, he said, but “It can’t be easy to live under a Hamas regime, which throws political opponents off the roofs to their death.”

    But like most Israeli spokesmen, the deputy minister neglected to drive home the blockade’s main purpose: Without it, Iranian ships loaded with ballistic missiles would be free to unload their cargoes at Gaza Port – with the same ease as their heavy weapons consignments reach Lebanon. Hamas would quickly grow into a second Hizballah. For Israel, lifting the blockade would be an act of suicide.

    Vilnai also missed his aim when he addressed the growing criticism at home of the way the raid was conducted. Much of it comes from veteran naval officers, who were deeply distressed on three counts:
    1. They want the defense minister, who was deeply involved in every detail of the operation, to be accountable for its shortcomings.
    2. They accuse the minister of sending the naval commandos of the elite Shayetet 6 unit into a clearly violent confrontation without adequate means of defense or options in case of violent resistance because he was afraid of international disapproval.
    debkafile’s military sources quote those officers as maintaining that when the activists on the Turkish Marmara saw that the commandos were virtually tied hand and foot, they were encouraged to extremes of violence. Had they been appropriately equipped, the troops could have quietly taken the helm and diverted the ship to Ashdod and the incident would have ended without loss of life.

    3. Hundreds of people milling about on the deck ready to waylay the commandos as they landed were visible from the helicopters before the drops began. A small amount of tear gas would have cleared the decks and enabled the troops to perform their mission cleanly.
    4. This was clearly no job for inadequately armed commandos highly trained for different sorts of combat. When Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu returns home Tuesday afternoon, he would do well to back away from mealy-mouthed rhetoric and state clearly in advance that any vessels, civilian or naval, venturing into the 20-nautical mile blockade zone would encounter warning fire first and if it was not heeded, direct fire. Semi-armed soldiers must not be asked to cover for timid politicians.

    As for an inquiry into the episode, the IDF regularly holds probes into all operations leading to loss of life as a matter of routine. The Israeli public is just as insistent on a credible investigation as any outsiders.
    The condition of all six hospitalized soldiers improved overnight by Tuesday morning.

  7. incognito says:

    Check out the responses in the survey at the bottom:

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/5/31/155248/712

  8. Joanne says:

    I feel sorry for the injured Israeli sailors, but Israeli forces should have never boarded that boat in the first place.

    No one is going to accept the argument that passengers armed with mostly sticks and knives were worth killing. I’ve even heard the rumor that Hamas operatives on the boat shot their own supporters during the melle to provide casualties. A pathetic example of wishful thinking.

    Israel stupidly played right into Hamas’s hands, and no amount of nuanced justification is going to stem the tide of vilification. Even if the vilification is not all fair, it will certainly be all-effective.

    I’m wondering if Israeli wouldn’t be better off ending the blockade and concentrating on defending its borders. Any humanitarian aid could just arrive by boat; Israel wouldn’t have to get involved with that. As for military aid, Israel will have to grin and bear it. By the way, there were no weapons of mass destruction, or weapons worthy of the name, on the boat the Israelis boarded. Rods and knives…and rumors of one stun grenade and one smoke bomb. Pathetic.

    Does Israel have procedures for impeachment? It should use them against Netanyahu.

  9. Solomonia says:

    Gaza Flotilla Day 2…

    Here’s another comprehensive collection of useful information regarding the Gaza Flotilla. Judging from the traffic, yesterday’s posting seems to have helped a considerable number of people: Video: Gaza Flotilla Thugs Stab Israeli Soldiers, Use Immed…

  10. xm says:

    2. They accuse the minister of sending the naval commandos of the elite Shayetet 6 unit into a clearly violent confrontation without adequate means of defense or options in case of violent resistance because he was afraid of international disapproval.”” COME ON NOW! it was exactly that they were too trigger happy NOT AFRAIDING international disproval that Israel had this outcome. Or else they would have sinked the ship with theirs Oto melaras?

    Come on now – extremely poorly planned and staged operation – altough some of the ppl on the deck were the same mob that lynched two Greek Cypriots back at the 90s.
    But where were the necessary tear gas barage, the stunt grenades prior to the commandos, the necessary numbers and the anti riot equipmentr (shields, globs, body armor).
    they executed perfectly the wrong mission.

  11. incognito says:

    Noble Joanne strikes again.

    I’m wondering if Israeli wouldn’t be better off ending the blockade and concentrating on defending its borders.

    I have this strong suspicion that you don’t live in Israel and thus are not likely to experience the consequences of open Iranian arms supply of the Hezbollah kind to Hamas. (If you do live in Israel, your problem is much worse).

    Does Israel have procedures for impeachment? It should use them against Netanyahu.

    The only possible reply to this would be deemed too insulting, so I’ll refrain.

    but Israeli forces should have never boarded that boat in the first place.

    Perhaps but…

    No one is going to accept the argument that passengers armed with mostly sticks and knives were worth killing.

    This is idiotic even for you.

  12. obsy says:

    Joanne,

    wait until you meet a group of “youth” at nights in the streets with knifes, iron bars (lets say without fire bombs) before you say “pathetic”. These weapons were superior to what the soldier were carrying ― at least if you forbid them to shoot (as you are doing).

    The Free Gaza Terrorists would have been stupid beyond believe to carry weapons of mass destruction on the ship on such a propaganda mission.

  13. Diane says:

    I’m still waiting to hear what was the cargo of the seized ship and the identity of the dead. This will go a long way toward shedding light on the truth of what transpired…

    My bet is that the dead are not politicians and journalists but IHH “brawn.” And my guess is the cargo hold contained little relief aid and plenty of “construction material.”

    Whether any of this matters is arguable. Logic has left the building where condemnation of Israel is concerned. I’m inclined to agree with Noah Pollak at Commentary, in his piece “The Problem with Playing Defense.” The time has passed for hand-wringing about how Israel could have handled the situation better. It’s time for Israel to play offense.

    http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/the-problem-with-playing-defense-15459

  14. JD says:

    These videos are gold.

    All this complaining, hey, Israel won this battle big time. Those videos alone. Totally impeach the general “peacefulness” of the “peace” protesters. “Cognitive war” and all that.

  15. obsy says:

    I have watched the 20:00 news from tf1 (french) 31th may today. I thought it was fair and completely unlike what I have seen in its German counterpart (20:00 “Tagesschau”), which was despicable beyond believe. I therefore wrote a transcript and translated important parts of Tagesschau. I hope others can tell me how news in other countries compared to this at the evening of 31th may. (Tagesschau is by far the most watched news show in Germany.)

    Sources:
    http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/sendung/ts19716.html

    http://tagesschau.vo.llnwd.net/d3/video/2010/0601/TV-20100601-0036-1901.webm.h264.mp4
    http://tagesschau.vo.llnwd.net/d3/video/2010/0601/TV-20100601-0036-1901.webm.ogv

    In parts:
    “Palästina-Konflikt”:
    http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/video/sendungsbeitrag53326_res-.html

    “Reaktionen auf Israel”:
    http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/video/sendungsbeitrag53314_res-.html

    Translation of some parts:

    (about 15 seconds of the IDF video played together with this first paragraph’s text:)
    Attempt to cut one’s losses:
    With this images, the Israeli army wants to prove that it has been attacked brutally by peace activists with iron bars and knifes and did not have a choice but to defend themselves. Israels Minister of Defense demands this interpretation of the events: “The activists have started the violent confrontations. The responsibility is theirs.”

    What did happen?
    In the early morning hours, the Israeli Army have stormed the international convoy of ships. However, according to statements of an eyewitness, the Israeli Army opened fire immediately. Israels bloody activity against the Gaza-Flotilla, which, among others, had received enormous support from Turkey, was condemned to the maximum.

    (Now the nations and demonstrators that condemned Israel are quoted/resp. shown) …

    Commentator:
    The damage, which Israel caused its image in the world today, is immeasurable. But the Netanjahu government does not seem to care about this. It sees itself to be in the right in its battle against the islamistic Hamas in Gaza. And so, it seem that the end justifies the means. This way Israel betakes itself voluntarily into isolation.

    (Again condemnations from the world) …

    (The organizations of some German Free Gaza activists have their say.
    Especially:
    Gregor Gysi (half Jewish and most famous active German Socialist politician): “the reaction with firearms and numerous casualties and injured is irresponsible and criminal. And one cannot tolerate this behavior from Israel.”
    Pax Christi (Mostly Christians Grandmas): “I cannot believe this (that the Free Gaza activist started the violence). They are all people who had no weapons, who did not transport weapons, who wanted to resist peacefully. This, I cannot imagine.”
    ) …

    (Again Condemnation from the world) …

    (Closing comment)

    A lot of time of the 5 min report was spend on showing and quoting people who condemn Israel. Less then 25 seconds was spend on Israel’s defense and it was undermined effectively while it played.

    Original:

    08:02 (Ansage)

    Israel hat einen internationalen Schiffskonvoi angegriffen, der Hilfsgüter in den abgeriegelten Gaza-Streifen bringen sollte. Soldaten stürmten die 6 Schiffe und töteten dabei mindestens 10 Menschen. An Bord waren auch internationale Politiker, die die Hilfsaktion für die Palästinenser unterstützen – unter ihnen 2 deutsche Bundestagsabgeordnete der Linkspartei. Die Schiffe wurden von der Marine in den Hafen Aschdod geschleppt.

    08:28 (IDF-video beginnt)

    Versuch der Schadensbegrenzung:
    Mit diesen Bildern will die israelische Armee beweisen, dass sie von den Friedensaktivisten mit Eisenstangen und Messern brutal angegriffen worden ist und keine andere Wahl hatte, als sich zu wehren. Israels Verteidigungsminister besteht auf diese Sicht der Geschehnisse: (08:44 IDF-video beendet) “Die Aktivisten haben mit den gewalttätigen Auseinandersetzungen begonnen. Die Verantwortung liegt bei ihnen.”

    08:52 (Anti-Israel Hetze beginnt)

    Was war geschehen:
    Die israelische Armee hat in den Morgenstunden den internationalen Schiffskonvoi gestürmt. Nach Aussagen eines Augenzeugen habe die israelische Armee jedoch sofort zu Schießen begonnen. Israels blutiger Einsatz gegen die Gaza-Flottille, die unter anderem große Unterstützung von der Türkei erhalten hatte, wurde dort auf’s schärfste verurteilt. In Istanbul kam es zu Anti-Israelischen Demonstrationen. Bereits vor einigen Tagen hat die türkische Regierung Israel mit schwersten Konsequenzen gedroht. Als erstes hat sie heute ihren Botschafter von Tel Aviv abberufen. Ministerpräsident Erdogan nannte die Aktion Staatsterrorismus. Wie hier in Syrien gab es in der gesamten arabischen Welt wütende Proteste. Auch in der provisorischen palästinensischen Hauptstadt Ramallah gingen die Menschen auf die Straße. Am Abend erklärte Palästinenser-Präsident Abbas: “So wie in Libanon und in der Türkei haben auch wir den UN-Sicherheitsrat zu einer Sondersitzung aufgefordert.” Israels Ministerpräsident Netanjahu, zur Zeit auf Staatsbesuch in Kanada, hat sein Treffen mit US-Präsident Obama morgen abgesagt und kehrt heute noch nach Israel zurück. Netanjahu bedauerte den Vorfall, erklärte aber, Israel werde die Blockade gegen Gaza aufrecht erhalten. Inzwischen wird der Schiffskonvoi in den Hafen von Aschdod gebracht. Man befürchtet neue Gewalt, wenn die Aktivisten die Schiffe verlassen.

    10:19 (Kommentar beginnt)

    Der Schaden, den Israel heute seinem Ansehen in der Welt zugefügt hat, ist unermesslich. Doch das scheint der Regierung Netanjahu egal zu sein. Sie sieht sich in ihrem Kampf gegen die islamistische Hamas in Gaza im Recht. Und so scheint der Zweck die Mittel zu heiligen. Damit aber begibt sich Israel freiwillig in die Isolation.

    10:38 (Nachrichtensprecherin)

    Der Israelische Angriff hat weltweit Empörung und Besorgnis ausgelöst. Zur Stunde berät der UN-Sicherheitsrat in einer Dringlichkeitssitzung darüber. US-Präsident Obama bat den israelischen Ministerpräsidenten Netanjahu telefonisch um nähere Informationen. Die EU verurteilte die Gewalt und forderte eine Untersuchung des Vorfalls. Bundeskanzlerin Merkel stellte in frage, ob die Verhältnismäßigkeit gewahrt worden sei.

    11:06 (Linkspartei)

    Stolz präsentiert sich die Bundestagsabgeordnete der Linkspartei, Annette Groth, auf ihrer Website als Mitglied der Free Gaza Mission. Weder über ihr Schicksal, noch über das der anderen 9 deutschen informierte der israelische Ministerpräsident die Kanzlerin. Entsprechend frostig die Reaktion. Sie sei bestürzt über den Verlust von Menschenleben, und: “es ist jetzt notwendig, dass eine schnellst mögliche Aufklärung der Vorgänge folgt – und zwar in umfassendem Maße. Ich bin der Meinung, dass es hilfreich sein könnte, wenn dabei auch internationale Beobachter zugegen sind.”
    Auch Gregor Gysi fordert Aufklärung – das israelische Vorgehen sei rechtswidrig. Aus seiner Sicht: “ist eine Reaktion, mit Schusswaffen, mit zahlreichen Toten und Verletzten, unverantwortlich und verbrecherisch. Und das darf man Israel so nicht durchgehen lassen.”
    11:58 (Pax Christi)
    Pax Christi und auch die Deutsch-Palästinensische Gesellschaft sind sich sicher, dass von den Friedensaktivisten an Bord der Schiffe keine Gewalt ausgegangen ist: “Ich vermag das nicht zu glauben. Dass sind alles Leute, die keine Waffen hatten, die keine Waffen transportierten, die gewaltfreien Widerstand üben wollten. Ich kann’s mir nicht vorstellen.”
    12:18 ()
    Scharfe Kritik auch von der EU-Außenbeauftragten Catherine Ashton. Sie fordert, ebenso wie der deutsche Außenminister, dass man an die Ursachen des Konfliktes gehen müsse: “Es ist wichtig, dass die humanitäre Hilfe für Gaza durchkommt, damit auch normale Leute die Chance haben eine bessere Existenz zu führen als bisher.”
    (Guido Westerwelle:) “Die Grenzübergänge müssen endlich ohne Einschränkung für humanitäre Hilfslieferungen geöffnet werden, so wie es die einschlägige Sicherheitsresolution der Vereinten Nationen auch vorsieht.”

    12:50 (Kommentatorin)

    Nicht nur in Berlin fragen sich die Politiker wie es mit dem Friedensprozess weiter gehen soll. Die Kanzlerin jedenfalls will eine weiter Eskalation auf jeden Fall vermeiden, denn hier ist eines allen klar: Mit Gewalt gibt es keine Lösung.

    13:04 (Ende)

    I also want to mention this:
    Many internet pages ( like this one http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/israelangriff106.html ) from this news service about this topic closed with this:

    “Free-Gaza”-Spendensammlungen werden in Deutschland unter anderem unterstützt von der Deutsch-Palästinensischen Gesellschaft, der kirchlichen Friedensorganisation pax christi und dem Verein Internationale Ärzte für die Verhütung des Atomkrieges.

    Translation:

    Free-Gaza-Donations in Germany are supported among others by Deutsch-Palästinensische Gesellschaft, the churchly peace organization pax christi and the association Internationale Ärzte für die Verhütung des Atomkriegs.

    I don’t think that it is good journalistic standard to advertise organizations (including tips for donations) while they are currently involved in questionable activities.

  16. E.G. says:

    All this Kvetching – over what?
    IDF not supplying you with yet another brilliant success?

    As if Entebbe or Beirut (yes, the one with Barak as a woman) had been bloodless. And as if you didn’t get the 2 trends going since the end of the 1970’s on: terrorists aiming at maximising civilian casualties, and Human Rights zeitgeist aiming at preserving terrorists’ rights. What Barak did with Dalal Mughrabi in 1979 is no longer advised.

    Furthermore, it looks you’re very uncomfortable with the honour/shame dimension in the above footage. As Amos Harel clearly puts it:

    It’s not just appalling footage, it’s a national humiliation and a blow to Israeli deterrence.

  17. JD says:

    “It’s not just appalling footage, it’s a national humiliation and a blow to Israeli deterrence”

    Haaretz trying to act rational? The embarkation videos are brilliant. They humanize the Israelis for persons who might only get Pallywood videos. Yes, true, security people around the world will think “incompetent,” but that’s great this time.

    And the ship did not get through.

    Think of it on a Islamist perspective. Their side looks incompetent too. See the fellow with the knife and his stabbing technique? Terrorists around the world are hanging their heads in shame.

    The whole peaceful protesters meme has been undermined also. The comments at the anti-Semite enabling Haaretz might be going nuts, but look at the comments at places like youtube.

    Erdogan was humiliated. Another defeat for whatever his cause is.

  18. incognito says:

    I’m still waiting to hear what was the cargo of the seized ship and the identity of the dead. This will go a long way toward shedding light on the truth of what transpired…

    Expired medicines and useless stuff.

  19. incognito says:

    Noble Joanne wringing her hands again.

    No one is going to accept the argument that passengers armed with mostly sticks and knives were worth killing.

    What obsy said.

    I’m wondering if Israeli wouldn’t be better off ending the blockade and concentrating on defending its borders.

    Stopping the flotilla Israel WAS protecting its borders. If they did not, were you going to live there and incur the consequences of Iran weaponry in Gaza?

    Does Israel have procedures for impeachment? It should use them against Netanyahu.

    DK whether to laugh or cry.

    How idiotic.

  20. incognito says:

    BTW, does anybody remember the promises that the likes of Merkel and Sarkozy made when they came to Israel to “stand beside” her when Israel ended Cast Lead? They promised to guarantee that no weapons would be passed to Hamas.

    Not only did they not do anything, but now they are demanding that Israel lift the blockade.

    Prostitutes all of them.

  21. […] Augean Stables » High(er) Definition footage of the battle on the … […]

  22. incognito says:

    As I predicted, like clockwork:

    Egypt opens Rafah border<, Israel discusses increasing flow of goods.

    Remind me, what was the purpose of the operation, again?

  23. incognito says:

    The world and Israel have yet again rewarded terror and punished moderation (such little as there is). Whoever thinks this advances peace rather then invites more violence must have his head examined.

  24. Michelle Schatzman says:

    @ JD, # 19. Interesting that I used exactly this argument while posting in a rather hostile forum in french. Most of the commenters could not believe that the soldiers descended to the ship with only hand guns they were ordered not to use and paintball guns. I tried to explain that the israelis are not overarmed robocops and that they can mess up too. I’ll see today how this works out in some minds.

  25. Daniel Bielak says:

    More footage – The following video may have additional footage (has some color, “in-person”, up-close, footage which may be additional, and the video may have other additional footage). The video is a compilation of several individual videos.

    “Censored Footage from the Gaza Flotilla – How Violence Breaks Out”, (Video – 3:27 min.)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaiMjAULWn0

  26. […] the maelstrom the soldiers came into: High(er) Definition footage of the battle on the Mavi Marmara Augean Stables High(er) Definition footage of the battle on the Mavi Marmara [Update: Excellent video of British security expert analyzing the boarding video. Shows the […]

  27. Daniel Bielak says:

    I got the reference (and link) to the video from the excellent blog Vlad Tepes (http://vladtepesblog.com).

  28. Daniel Bielak says:

    Video of something from a while ago.

    This is how it is done.

    “This is a fantastic moment in politics. The Netherlands tells it like it is to Turkeys face. While this happened some time ago in the EP, it seemed like a good time to post it given Turkey’s role in the current ‘aid’ flotilla.”
    – video description comment by uploader of video, user vladtepesblogdotcom on YouTube

    “The Netherlands exposes Turkeys hypocrisy”, (Video) Barry Madlener, A Dutch MP for the PVV talks tough to the Turkish Minister of EU Affairs, Egemen Bagis, in the EU Parliament; video uploaded on YouTube user vladtepesblogdotcom’s Channel, video by vladtepesblog.com
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee2D6kUBowo

  29. obsy says:

    My comment 17 is through the filter.

    I would be interested in comparisons ― especially to big news shows from traditionally Anti-Israeli countries like Sweden.

  30. E.G. says:

    obsy,

    and thank you very much for it!
    (sorry, can’t provide Swedish stuff)

  31. Daniel Bielak says:

    Off-topic (in a specific sense, but on-topic in a general sense)

    Some pro-Israel (Israel-supporting), pro-Free-World (Free-World-supporting), anti-Jihad (Jihad-combatting; Islamic-Supremacism-combatting), Links

    Vijay Kumar – “The Wrong Way to Fight Jihad”, Interview with Vijay Kumar; Vijay Kumar understands, and is excellent; Vijay Kumar is a native of India; Vijay Kumar is currently running for the U.S. Congress as a Republican candidate for Tennessee 5th Congressional
    http://frontpagemag.com/2010/03/26/the-wrong-way-to-stand-against-jihad/

    “An interview with Vijay Kumar”
    http://www.faithfreedom.org/9682

    Vijay Kumar – “Why I Left the Left”
    http://www.kumarforcongress.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=98:why-i-left-the-left&catid=36

    Kumar for Congress
    http://www.kumarforcongress.com

    Edmund Standing – excellent young man in Britain – atheist, anti-Islamic-Supremacism, anti-Far-Right-Wing
    http://edmundstanding.wordpress.com/

    Vladtepesblog – self-described Classical Liberal blog
    Blog: http://www.vladtepesblog.com
    YouTube Page: http://www.youtube.com/user/vladtepesblogdotcom
    Vimeo Videos: http://vimeo.com/user2689469/videos

    “Q&A session with panel after Sept 14 Bruce Bawer speech Ottawa”, (Video) Bruce Bawer, Terry Glavin, Marc Lebuis from Point De Bascule blog, and David Harris
    http://vimeo.com/8320035

    “Bruce Bawer: Multiculturalism, Freedom of Speech and Appeasing Islam (1 of 11)”, (Video – Part 1 of 11, Playlist) Conference with Bruce Bawer in Montréal, September 16,2009, with talk by Bruce Bawer, with host Marc Lebuis of Point de Bascule, with excellent Question and Answer session
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hufWDtrIhnM&feature=PlayList&p=FFE7213128B63764&index=0

    Point De Bascule – French Canadian (Web Site in French)
    http://www.pointdebasculecanada.ca/

    Bruce Bawer – American, former resident of Canada, resident of Norway, Gay, Human Rights activist
    http://www.brucebawer.com/

    “David Harris Speaks on Islam and the New anti semitism”, (Video) “FreeThinkingFilms — April 21, 2009 — April 13 2009 – The Free Thinking Film Society showed two films, “The Case for Israel”, based on Alan Dershowitz book and “The Monster Among Us”, a film about the new anti-semetism in Europe. We invited two speakers, Barbara Kay, a columnist for Canada’s National Post and David Harris, former chief of strategic planning for the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7iy3GGSi90

    Kitman TV – Politiclly Correct Documents Online (Many Videos)
    http://kitmantv.blogspot.com/

    Un:dhimmi – “Watching the Enablers of Islamization” – British Blogger
    http://undhimmi.com/

    Jihad Watch – by Robert Spencer and with the excellent Hugh Fitzgerald; Hugh Fitzgerald’s comments on blog posts on Jihad Watch are excellent. He completely understand the situation and he knows the full history of the situation that Israel is in.
    http://www.jihadwatch.org/

    UniverseFreedom – woman from Europe – Switzerland – who understands the situation; her previous channel, which had many excellent videos, was, I think flaged by Islamic-Supremcaists, and was shutdown by youtube; this is her new channel to which she has been re-uploading videos
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Universefreedom

    Ummat al-Kuffar, former Iraqi
    Web Site – http://www.ummat-al-kuffar.org/
    YouTube Channel (Many Videos, about Islam) – http://www.youtube.com/user/AhmadsQuran3

    Terry Glavin – Canadian, pro-Israel, pro-Free-World, Socialist, journalist
    http://transmontanus.blogspot.com/

    Khaled Abu Toameh – Excellent Arab Israeli Journalist
    http://www.hudsonny.org/mt/mt-cp.cgi?__mode=view&blog_id=1&id=22

    Allen Lake – “Allen Lake talks on how to explain Islam to naive friends. Malmo” – (Video) speech given by the EDL strategist Alan Lake adressing The Sweden Democrats; EDL is the English Defense League, an anti-Islamic-Supremacist, pro-Free-world, pro-democracy, pro-Israel, anti-racism organization – is slandered by the British News Media as being “Far-Right-Wing”
    http://bankoran.com/?p=113
    http://kitmantv.blogspot.com/2010/05/alan-lake-strategic-problems-and.html

    “Ibn Warraq Remarks at Freedom of Speech in the Age of Jihad”, (Video, 14 min.) video recorded part of a several-hour-long conference, called “Free Speech in an Age of Jihad”, that took place in April 2008 about covert efforts (the “stealth jihad”) in the United States of the Islamic-Supremacist poltical movement; legal lawfare; the infiltration of security agencies of the United States government by Muslim Brotherhood Islamic-Supremacist front groups (in this recorded part the speakers are Ibn Warraq and Steve Emerson)
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8731071081643318571#

    “Free Speech in an Age of Jihad”, (Audio) audio recording of the whole several-hour-long 4-part conference (Speakers: Roger Kimball, Stanley Kurtz, Rachel Ehrenfeld, Brooke Goldstein, Ezra Levant, Clifford D. May, Robert Spencer, Steven Emerson, Frank J. Gaffney, Jr., Claudia Rosett, Ibn Warraq, Mark Steyn, Robert Bork, Roger Kimball, Andrew C McCarthy, Jay Nordlinger,Daniel Kornstein, John J. Walsh
    http://www.newcriterion.com/webcasts.cfm?page=4
    direct links to audio files
    Part 1: http://www.newcriterion.com/cm/webcast/wc_jJKG9mcw.mp3
    Part 2: http://www.newcriterion.com/cm/webcast/wc_GZq4MHNn.mp3
    Part 3: http://www.newcriterion.com/cm/webcast/wc_Vwf77g0m.mp3
    Part 4: http://www.newcriterion.com/cm/webcast/wc_KvbQn5vw.mp3

    “Libel Lawfare: Silencing Criticism of Radical Islam”, (Video; in 5 parts) several-hour-long Conference about the effort, engaged in by a practice called “lawfare”, of Islamic-Supremacists in silencing those trying to make known the activity and threat of the Islamic-Supremacist movement, and the role that the British legal system and the United Nations are playing in that effort (Speakers: Alan Dershowitz, Frank Gaffney, James Taranto, Andy McCarthy, John J. Walsh, Hassan Dai, Joe Kaufman, Marc Lebuis, David Rivkin, Alan Mendoza, Douglas Murray, David Harris, Elizabeth Samson, Barak Seener; also included is the presentation of award to Timothy Kepshandy of Sidley Austin (a law firm which has given free legal representation to some people, including Hassan Dai and Marc Lebuis, who have targeted by Islamic-Supremacist legal lawfare))
    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRvgpHOqzJo
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSUwW35FsCs
    Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay69CmQTeq4
    Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k4I-Txr_Lo
    Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogjXDTo-VXo

    “The Netherlands exposes Turkeys hypocrisy”, (Video) Barry Madlener, A Dutch MP for the PVV talks tough to the Turkish Minister of EU Affairs, Egemen Bagis, in the EU Parliament; This is how it is done; video uploaded on YouTube user vladtepesblogdotcom’s Channel, video by vladtepesblog.com
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee2D6kUBowo

    “ORIANA FALLACI – ON ANTISEMITISM-I find it shameful\SULL’ANTISEMITISMO-Io trovo vergognoso”, (Video (Audio of speech) – in two parts – pt.1/2 (6:23 min.) and pt.2/2 (6:51 min.)) Sull’Antisemitismo (Io trovo vergognoso) by Oriana Fallaci. Panorama, April 12, 2002; excellent speech by the late great Oriana Fallaci; in Italian with English text subtitles
    Part 1 of 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9Dl5YEy3o
    Part 2 of 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anTPuAQ1oUU
    Text in English : http://www.ftpi.umn.edu/shifman/fallaci.pdf
    Text in English: http://www.zchor.org/israel/fallaci.htm
    Text in Italian: http://www.hsje.org/sull.htm

    On Antisemitism (I find it shameful) / Sull’antisemitismo (Io trovo vergognoso)

    by Oriana Fallaci

    April 12, 2002, originally published in Panorama

    I find it shameful that in Italy there should be a procession of individuals dressed as suicide bombers who spew vile abuse at Israel, hold up photographs of Israeli leaders on whose foreheads they have drawn the swastika, incite people to hate the Jews. And who, in order to see Jews once again in the extermination camps, in the gas chambers, in the ovens of Dachau and Mauthausen and Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen et cetera, would sell their own mother to a harem.

    I find it shameful that the Catholic Church should permit a bishop, one with lodgings in the Vatican no less, a saintly man who was found in Jerusalem with an arsenal of arms and explosives hidden in the secret compartments of his sacred Mercedes, to participate in that procession and plant himself in front of a microphone to thank in the name of God the suicide bombers who massacre the Jews in pizzerias and supermarkets. To call them “martyrs who go to their deaths as to a party.”

    I find it shameful that in France, the France of Liberty-Equality-Fraternity, they burn synagogues, terrorize Jews, profane their cemeteries. I find it shameful that the youth of Holland and Germany and Denmark flaunt the kaffiah just as Mussolini’s avant garde used to flaunt the club and the fascist badge. I find it shameful that in nearly all the universities of Europe Palestinian students sponsor and nurture anti-Semites. That in Sweden they asked that the Nobel Peace Prize given to Shimon Peres in 1994 be taken back and conferred on the dove with the olive branch in his mouth, that is on Arafat. I find it shameful that the distinguished members of the Committee, a Committee that (it would appear) rewards political color rather than merit, should take this request into consideration and even respond to it. In hell the Nobel Prize honors he who does not receive it.

    I find it shameful (we’re back in Italy) that state-run television stations contribute to the resurgent antisemitism, crying only over Palestinian deaths while playing down Israeli deaths, glossing over them in unwilling tones.

    I find it shameful that in their debates they host with much deference the scoundrels with turban or kaffiah who yesterday sang hymns to the slaughter at New York and today sing hymns to the slaughters at Jerusalem, at Haifa, at Netanya, at Tel Aviv. I find it shameful that the press does the same, that it is indignant because Israeli tanks surround the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, that it is not indignant because inside that same church two hundred Palestinian terrorists well armed with machine guns and munitions and explosives (among them are various leaders of Hamas and Al-Aqsa) are not unwelcome guests of the monks (who then accept bottles of mineral water and jars of honey from the soldiers of those tanks). I find it shameful that, in giving the number of Israelis killed since the beginning of the Second Intifada (four hundred twelve), a noted daily newspaper found it appropriate to underline in capital letters that more people are killed in their traffic accidents (Six hundred a year).

    I find it shameful that the Roman Observer, the newspaper of the Pope–a Pope who not long ago left in the Wailing Wall a letter of apology for the Jews–accuses of extermination a people who were exterminated in the millions by Christians. By Europeans. I find it shameful that this newspaper denies to the survivors of that people (survivors who still have numbers tattooed on their arms) the right to react, to defend themselves, to not be exterminated again. I find it shameful that in the name of Jesus Christ (a Jew without whom they would all be unemployed), the priests of our parishes or Social Centers or whatever they are flirt with the assassins of those in Jerusalem who cannot go to eat a pizza or buy some eggs without being blown up. I find it shameful that they are on the side of the very ones who inaugurated terrorism, killing us on airplanes, in airports, at the Olympics, and who today entertain themselves by killing western journalists. By shooting them, abducting them, cutting their throats, decapitating them. (There’s someone in Italy who, since the appearance of Anger and Pride, would like to do the same to me. Citing verses of the Koran he exhorts his brothers” in the mosques and the Islamic Community to chastise me in the name of Allah. To kill me. Or rather to die with me. Since he’s someone who speaks English well, I’ll respond to him in English: “Fuck you.”)

    I find it shameful that almost all of the left, the left that twenty years ago permitted one of its union processionals to deposit a coffin (as a mafioso warning) in front of the synagogue of Rome, forgets the contribution made by the Jews to the fight against fascism. Made by Carlo and Nello Rossini, for example, by Leone Ginzburg, by Umberto Terracini, by Leo Valiani, by Emilio Sereni, by women like my friend Anna Maria Enriques Agnoletti who was shot at Florence on June 12, 1944, by seventy-five of the three-hundred-thirty-five people killed at the Fosse Ardeatine, by the infinite others killed under torture or in combat or before firing squads. (The companions, the teachers, of my infancy and my youth.)

    I find it shameful that in part through the fault of the left–or rather, primarily through the fault of the left (think of the left that inaugurates its congresses applauding the representative of the PLO, leader in Italy of the Palestinians who want the destruction of Israel)–Jews in Italian cities are once again afraid. And in French cities and Dutch cities and Danish cities and German cities, it is the same. I find it shameful that Jews tremble at the passage of the scoundrels dressed like suicide bombers just as they trembled during Krystallnacht, the night in which Hitler gave free rein to the Hunt of the Jews. I find it shameful that in obedience to the stupid, vile, dishonest, and for them extremely advantageous fashion of Political Correctness the usual opportunists–or better the usual parasites–exploit the word Peace. That in the name of the word Peace, by now more debauched than the words Love and Humanity, they absolve one side alone of its hate and bestiality. That in the name of a pacifism (read conformism) delegated to the singing crickets and buffoons who used to lick Pol Pot’s feet they incite people who are confused or ingenuous or intimidated. Trick them, corrupt them, carry them back a half century to the time of the yellow star on the coat. These charlatans who care about the Palestinians as much as I care about the charlatans. That is not at all.

    I find it shameful that many Italians and many Europeans have chosen as their standard-bearer the gentleman (or so it is polite to say) Arafat. This nonentity who thanks to the money of the Saudi Royal Family plays the Mussolini ad perpetuum and in his megalomania believes he will pass into History as the George Washington of Palestine. This ungrammatical wretch who when I interviewed him was unable even to put together a complete sentence, to make articulate conversation. So that to put it all together, write it, publish it, cost me a tremendous effort and I concluded that compared to him even Ghaddafi sounds like Leonardo da Vinci. This false warrior who always goes around in uniform like Pinochet, never putting on civilian garb, and yet despite this has never participated in a battle. War is something he sends, has always sent, others to do for him. That is, the poor souls who believe in him. This pompous incompetent who playing the part of Head of State caused the failure of the Camp David negotiations, Clinton’s mediation.

    No-no-I-want-Jerusalem-all-to-myself. This eternal liar who has a flash of sincerity only when (in private) he denies Israel’s right to exist, and who as I say in my book contradicts himself every five minutes. He always plays the double-cross, lies even if you ask him what time it is, so that you can never trust him. Never! With him you will always wind up systematically betrayed. This eternal terrorist who knows only how to be a terrorist (while keeping himself safe) and who during the Seventies, that is when I interviewed him, even trained the terrorists of Baader-Meinhof. With them, children ten years of age. Poor children. (Now he trains them to become suicide bombers. A hundred baby suicide bombers are in the works: a hundred!). This weathercock who keeps his wife at Paris, served and revered like a queen, and keeps his people down in the shit. He takes them out of the shit only to send them to die, to kill and to die, like the eighteen year old girls who in order to earn equality with men have to strap on explosives and disintegrate with their victims. And yet many Italians love him, yes. Just like they loved Mussolini. And many other Europeans do the same.

    I find it shameful and see in all this the rise of a new fascism, a new Nazism. A fascism, a Nazism, that much more grim and revolting because it is conducted and nourished by those who hypocritically pose as do-gooders, progressives, communists, pacifists, Catholics or rather Christians, and who have the gall to label a warmonger anyone like me who screams the truth.

    I see it, yes, and I say the following. I have never been tender with the tragic and Shakespearean figure Sharon. (“I know you’ve come to add another scalp to your necklace,” he murmured almost with sadness when I went to interview him in 1982.). I have often had disagreements with the Israelis, ugly ones, and in the past I have defended the Palestinians a great deal. Maybe more than they deserved. But I stand with Israel, I stand with the Jews. I stand just as I stood as a young girl during the time when I fought with them, and when the Anna Marias were shot. I defend their right to exist, to defend themselves, to not let themselves be exterminated a second time. And disgusted by the Antisemitism of many Italians, of many Europeans, I am ashamed of this shame that dishonors my Country and Europe. At best, it is not a community of States, but a pit of Pontius Pilates. And even if all the inhabitants of this planet were to think otherwise, I would continue to think so.

  32. incognito says:

    Most of the commenters could not believe that the soldiers descended to the ship with only hand guns they were ordered not to use and paintball guns.

    Why shouldn’t they believe otherwise? They are bombarded by their media and politicians constantly with Israel demonization.

  33. Cynic says:

    Daniel,

    When Barry Madlener compares the Muslims in Zwitzweland to the about the Christians in Turkey he should have used the word “Armenians” because they are the long suffering Christians there.

  34. obsy says:

    Awesome article by Barry Rubin!

    http://rubinreports.blogspot.com/2010/06/gaza-flotilla-issue-logic-truth-and.html

    Is Egypt the real loser of this game?

    If the blockade is ended, Hamas can and will entrench itself as a repressive state able to carry out terrorism against Israel, import the weapons it wants, and to provoke wars at will. The Iran-Syria-led bloc will increase in power. It will be a terrible defeat for the West and lead to others, including Gaza as a base of subversion against Egypt, the weakening of the West Bank as the next target, and the impossibility of Israel-Palestinian peace.

    Looks like there are more countries with major news organisations who wrongly dismiss the IDF-videos as propaganda:

    New York Times, one of whose writers dismisses the video footage of the soldiers being attacked with these words:

    “Those images of commandos being attacked with clubs and chairs are lacking context. Were they shot before or after the boarding party started using force?”

  35. incognito says:

    Is Egypt the real loser of this game?

    You can regard Egypt as lost too — more than likely that when Mubarak goes it’ll become another Turkey.

    Looks like there are more countries with major news organisations who wrongly dismiss the IDF-videos as propaganda

    There is a video somewhere where a journo explicitly states “this is what the readers on the ME want to read”.

  36. igout says:

    Well, people will see what they want to see. Those who have breathed the intoxicating fumes of radical chic & revolution-lite too long will see heroic freedom fighters rising up against the colonialist oppressor; the rest of us will see something very different.

    So Israel can line up so much proof and evidence as to make 2+2=4 seem the wildest of speculations, but it won’t change anything. They have unpleasant work before them, so they might as well put a good face on it and get to it.

  37. incognito says:

    so they might as well put a good face on it and get to it.

    But the did not when it counted and now reached a point when it may no longer be possible.

  38. Stan says:

    Proof of Israels commitment to minimizing enemy casualties – sending its best troops into harms way – armed with popguns.
    This is what proves Israels case as it being the most moral army in the world!!!
    Israels best laying their bodies on the line in order to demonstrate foolish restraint!!
    The ships had to be stopped – as do the next batch – and if ever there was a display of underwhelming force – this was its defining moment.
    By using popguns Israel has demonstrated the dynamics aboard the ship.
    To me this incident exposes the true color of what Israel is upagainst – the true smell of the humanitarian army – a glimpse of the hijacked fools.
    Of course it will be hailed as the greatest victory ever for Jihad (always is, and always will be).

  39. Eliyahu says:

    Diane, speaking to a high official of the Israeli army department that regularly transports food and other goods to Gaza, the section that examined the cargo in order to forward to Gaza what could go there, I was told that some but not most of the cargo was not construction material. However, the medicines that were being sent to Gaza were either expired [!!] or were close to expiration.

  40. Diane says:

    Here is a sympathetic but critical assessment of the Israeli action against the flotilla, from a military expert at the Contentions blog. She raises issues I had not seen elsewhere.

    http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/j-e-dyer/305086

    Wake-Up Call
    J. E. Dyer – 06.02.2010 – 3:41 PM

    I have confidence that Israel’s defense leadership will correct the tactical error in the May 31 boarding of M/V Mavi Marmara that allowed the situation to spiral out of control. No revision of tactics is, by itself, a silver bullet, but the change of one premise will enable the IDF to go in properly prepared. The definition of that premise is whether the activists participating in a blockade-busting attempt will resist the IDF with force or not.

    The excellent debate unfolding here at CONTENTIONS has already highlighted the reason why Israeli planners weren’t expecting such resistance on Monday. Max Boot points out that Israel has previously stopped and searched aid ships and allowed them to continue to Gaza. It’s precisely because those vessels were boarded without resistance that the Israeli commandos anticipated none.

    Should they have considered resistance likely? Yes. There’s no sugar-coating that operational truth. All the information was available beforehand to suggest resistance was probable, from the integral involvement of IHH and Hamas to the numerous prior statements of Islamist activists that the flotilla’s purpose was to break the blockade, incurring martyrdom if necessary. The weapons found on Mavi Marmara, which include homemade projectiles and incendiary devices (video here), are exactly what Hamas guerrillas have used for years in street confrontations with the IDF.

    My criticism here is from a military professional perspective – and I can assure you of this: I can’t possibly beat up the IDF planners any more than they are beating up themselves at this moment. Faulty planning and lame execution get no mercy in military circles. The planners of the raid don’t expect any.

    This flotilla incident is a wake-up call: a demonstration of operational intent on the part of Israel’s guerrilla enemies. Until this week, Israel thought of handling the Gaza maritime problem in terms of enforcing a blockade against activists who were unarmed and, at worst, rather silly. By the criteria of both naval operations and international custom, the Israelis have approached it straightforwardly. The maritime blockade of Gaza was declared in proper channels, via a “Notice to Mariners,” and the enforcement has always involved the minimum force necessary to achieve the objective. Intercepting ships when they are close to the blockaded area – not interfering with security and order in foreign ports – is a sound practice for keeping a blockade’s profile low and its consequences manageable.

    The IHH-organized flotilla, with its eruption of armed resistance, changes the calculus of Israeli strategy for the whole maritime security problem. We can expect Israel’s leaders and IDF planners to adapt. They will do better than adapt, I predict: they will get ahead of the problem, planning for even more contingencies than Hamas has yet concocted.

    But armchair naval commandos need to understand that this is a very tough problem. Going in with sufficient force to avert resistance from the outset works almost every time when a boarding involves criminals with mercenary motives: small-time pirates, drug-runners, or sanctions-breakers. The U.S. Navy and Coast Guard have long experience with that kind of maritime enforcement. If the standoff at sea involves activists seeking martyrdom, however, controlling them without killing them will often be even harder in a maritime situation than it is on land.

    At some point, the Israelis may indeed have to choose interdicting arms shipments through kinetic action in foreign ports. But the real issue with the flotillas is the integrity of the blockade. As long as Hamas is getting foreign assistance, its operatives won’t stop trying to break the blockade with dramatic instances of confrontation and self-immolation at sea. Other nations in the region need to wake up and prevent their ships – and, if possible, their citizens – from being impressed into such service.

    It’s not clear how far Turkey will go down this path; perhaps the 2011 elections can change the nation’s course. The Europeans, however, have no excuse for not correcting course now. The U.S. and the EU should endorse a policy that all NGO aid sent to Gaza by sea be offloaded in Israeli- or Egyptian-controlled ports, inspected, and convoyed over land. The West’s irresponsible cooperation with the Hamas narrative has gone far enough.

  41. incognito says:

    I’m afraid no improvement will come from EU and the rest and the notion that Turkey will reverse course via elections is an illusion. After all Erdogan’s fuss is precisely his way of gaining popularity on the cheap and now he has the help of Obama.

    AFAICT the US has allied with the Tehran-Syria-Ankara axis and folks better come out of denial.

  42. andrew says:

    It is clear that no solution to the Gaza question can be found as long as the statute of this territory is
    (deliberately) left in such undefined a way. Is it one
    disconnected part of a non-existent country the concept (and would-be delimitation) of which was created for the sole purpose of making peace with Israel impossible ? is it an entity distinct from the
    PLO-part and at the same time entirely distinct from a
    part of Egypt ? or is it truly a part of Egypt only
    temporarily unrecognized as such for political reasons
    (again, so as not to make a solution to the ME conflict
    possible) ? Europeans (among others) do not consider the (temporarily remitted) closure of the Egypt-Gaza
    border as being a blockade. However they do consider as
    a blockade the fact that Israelis wish to control their
    border with this ennemy entity. This is totally absurd.
    Yes, I do remember that Sadat rejected Begin’s
    insistence that Egypt should administer Gaza. But could
    not the absurdity of the situation be emphasized more
    often, and more clearly ?

  43. obsy says:

    andrew,

    so that Egypt has give in to its local “democratic” movement and open the border more often? So that Hamas gets weapons against Israel and the Egyptian jihadists an area to retreat and prepare attacks against Egypt?

    Well, maybe if it is done carefully and in small doses. On the other hand, don’t think that this has a better impact than the other solid facts that are on Israels side.

  44. obsy says:

    Daniel,

    thanks for the big collection of anti-jihad voices from different ideological backgrounds (comment 35)!

  45. Daniel Bielak says:

    obsy,

    Thanks for pointing out the big collection of links to anti-jihad voices that I posted. It was not posted by the blog server when I submitted it. I am glad that you have pointed it out, and I am glad that, as a result of your pointing it out, you have notified me that it has been passed through the filter.

  46. Daniel Bielak says:

    Here’s the current link to the comment with the big collection of links to anti-Jihad voices from different ideological backgrounds that I posted (which is currently listed as comment #35).

    http://www.theaugeanstables.com/2010/06/01/higher-definition-footage-of-the-battle-on-the-mavi-marmara/#comment-544329

  47. andrew says:

    Obsy,

    Thanks for your comment #47. I take it that you consider that the outcome of giving Egypt more
    responsibility in Gaza affairs would more probably be
    a destabilization of Egypt than a control of Hamas.
    I see the point: unfortunately, you may be right.

  48. incognito says:

    Andrew,

    That’s a moot question because Egypt would be foolish to accept the troubles but no benefits of responsibility. Ditto for Jordan.

    Not to mention that would imply giving up the right of return, which no arab is capable of.

    While the world is screwing around with borders, Jerusalem, settlements, nobody touches ROR which was, is and will be the root of the problem, because it is fundamental to arabs/muslim: no Israel of any kind.

  49. […] A slew of others stood up for Israel, such as Elder of Ziyon, CAMERA, News That Matters, Augean Stables, and many others. These blogs identified and collected much information on legal issues, as well as […]

  50. Emanuele says:

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    http://www.vsizer.com/index.php?action=show&idComparison=16170
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