What if the Israelis had taken Bin Laden out?

It’s always a good mental exercise to imagine what the international reaction would be to any belligerent action by another country (democracy or not). Daniel Friedmann, former Minister of Justice under Ehud Olmert, has a piece in Yediot Aharonot that does just that in the case of OBL. When Friedmann wrote this, he apparently did not know that at the time of his untimely demise, OBL was unarmed. That would make him, by the definition of B’tselem and other “Human Rights” NGOs, an innocent civilian.

The following is provided and translated by Steven Plaut.

Suppose, just Suppose that it had been Israel that Carried Out the Assassination (or, American Chutzpah)

By Daniel Friedmann

We are lucky that bin Laden was taken out by the American military.  I tremble at the thought of what would have happened had he been killed by Israeli forces.   Would there not have arisen a deafening outcry against cold-blooded murder without a trial?  Would there not have been calls to investigate whether bin Laden could have been captured unharmed, to be put on fair trial, where he could defend himself judicially?

Would not the soldier who had shot him be indicted, because perhaps he could have merely wounded bin Laden by shooting at his legs, thus avoiding an unnecessary loss of human life?   And what about those other “collateral” deaths in the compound? Was it really necessary to kill THOSE people without even putting them on trial?

Let us bear in mind that the operation was carried out in the territory of a friendly foreign country allied to the US – Pakistan. Since when can a country just go in and kill suspects in another country that has its own police and courts?

One must keep in mind that at this stage bin Laden was merely a suspect – since he was never convicted of any crime by any court, including for the destruction of the WTC towers in the US.  Under the circumstances, should not the US forces have warned him and demanded his surrender before opening fire, and – if such a warning was given to bin Laden – was it a sufficient warning?

To all these “questions” others would then be added. Under such sensitive circumstances, is it really appropriate for the US military itself to examine its own behavior and performance?  Would it not be better to have some outside commission of investigation, one that will enjoy public trust?

Indeed, a local commission of investigation would be insufficient and surely many would demand an international investigation, one in which the international community could place its faith!  Like one by the UN or its commission on human rights.

There are other issues.  How did the Americans decide to toss bin Laden’s carcass into the sea without first consulting bin Laden’s own family members and violating his human right to a dignified burial.

And why did the American government do all this without even soliciting a single learned scholarly legal opinion from an international expert on human rights?

And I almost forgot.  In such an important matter it is unthinkable that action should have been carried out without first petitioning the Supreme Court, which in Israel at least routinely interferes whenever the military wants to assassinate terrorist leaders.  Hence the Supreme Court should contemplate who should now be indicted for the abuses in the operation, after the commission of investigation completes its work.

And even that is not the end of the story.  The names of the soldiers and officers involved in the operation must be made public at court order, because of their involvement in the killings.  The individuals involved might someday seek public office.  Even more important is the fact that one day it may be desirable to conduct a thorough legal evaluation of these people, given the fact that their behavior produced human deaths.

It’s always useful to consider the differential between the way Israel gets treated by the “Human Rights” community and the MSNM and the way other countries are. Note that the latest news, which the author of this article did not know at the time of composition, is that Bin Laden was unarmed at the time he was gunned down. By the definitions used by B’tselem and Palestinian “Human Rights” organizations, that makes him an innocent civilian.

Now take this exercise one step further: Imagine the outrage of Americans if any major American institution (e.g., the Supreme Court, or some group in Congress) called for these kinds of investigations, or some newspaper that took this position. Imagine the cry of outrage at such crazy self-inflicted inhibitions. The Nation is not a fringe journal by accident. In Israel, this is all mainstream discourse directed against the country itself.

Nothing illustrates better the principle that, when it comes to the Human Rights Complex, Israel is the whitest of the whites.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

UPDATE: German TV has a member of the Green Party and a theologian expressing precisely the “human rights” sentiments mentioned above. It’s not Christian and it’s not civilized…

34 Responses to What if the Israelis had taken Bin Laden out?

  1. Cynic says:

    According to the Brazilian Yahoo news
    Europeus questionam legalidade da operação para matar Bin Laden

    Helmut Schmidt says that it was clearly a violation of “International Law” and could have incalculable consequences in the Arab world.

    Ehrhart Koerting, Interior Minister for the city-state of Berlin would prefer an International Criminal Tribunal to try BL.

    Gert-Jan Knoops, a Dutch judge, said that BL should have been apprehended and extradited to the US analogous to what was done with Slobodan Milosevic. I wonder why he suggested the US and not the Hague for the trial? Maybe NYC is a sweeter apple!
    This judge disagrees that the US’ excuse of being in a war against terrorism permits this type of action of eliminating its adversaries on the battleground.
    flabber..good.grief..gasted me!

    A HRW consultant, Reed Brody, said that it is still too early to say if the operation was legal.
    Maybe they are waiting for Mark Garlasko to return from Gaza beach?
    He wants to know exactly what the orders were and the rules of engagement, exactly what happened and exactly what the USA alleges that BL is guilty of!
    Oh good grief again.

    Navi Pillay of the UN’s Human Rights whatever wants complete details about BL’s death, and issues a reminder emphasizing that all acts of counter-terrorism have to respect International Law!

  2. Cynic says:

    I read somewhere that the US has given Pakistan some 1.5 billion annually since 9/11 to help with the fight (bribe?), and only some 30 miles from Islamabad BL has been holed up these past several years in a most prepotent building for the area.
    All that aid and not a peep from those who lambaste the loan guarantees and aid to Israel; that sh***y little country that has always backed the US politically, shared its research acuity in various fields providing technological and financial wealth to American companies passed on the the citizens in improved lifestyles, and defense mechanisms for its fighting forces.
    Maybe if Israel had harboured BL they would be more respected? Actually another version of Friedmann’s could be written, given the time to see the reaction of America to Pakistan; what if BL had holed up in Lod, or Ramle?

  3. Sérgio says:

    Once again, the massive hypocrisy of the Western ignorantia is exposed but it will soon be forgotten, say, when the next idiotic flotilla “incident” happens.

    • oao says:

      It is not just ignorance, but malevolent ignorance and cowardice. They are afriad of Islamists but not of Israel.

      All those who think that because Israel brings good things to the West it is going to be supported and appreciated know very little about history.

    • Cynic says:

      It’s not just the hypocrisy of the West but also some of the Jews of the West.
      Now that a Jstreet rabbi has been elected head of the reform movement in the US many are expecting Israel to be even more isolated.
      With their representative espousing the views of J Street and NIF I suppose one can expect applause for the next flotilla.

      • oao says:

        But that is not new either. It has always been one of Jewish responses to anti-semitism and oppression. And it’s not just the diaspora jews, but the Israeli left too.

        My position on this is straightforward: in a Darwinist context, only the strong survive. The weak won’t, no matter how moral they think they are. The rest is conversation.

        • Ray in Seattle says:

          oao says; “My position on this is straightforward: in a Darwinist context, only the strong survive. The weak won’t, no matter how moral they think they are. The rest is conversation.”

          Agreed. And in a Darwinian sense how could it be otherwise?

          The difference between humans and all other animals is that we alone possess a brain with which we can temporarily delude ourselves about these things. (I believe this happens to societies that become so successful (and strong) that they can raise a generations or two that doesn’t have to worry about defending themselves. Fortunately such notions are fickle and subject to modification.

          Also, self-delusion is not limited to the left and so things have a tendency to balance out on the grand scale. If the psychological left can blithely choose appeasement rather than war in the face of all reason – rightist thugs can just as commonly convince themselves that their victims are mired in weakness and would not possibly defend themselves.

          (See WWII where I bet there were plenty of pre-war appeasers who became pretty good Nazi killers after things got going.)

          • oao says:

            Agreed. And in a Darwinian sense how could it be otherwise?

            Well, you see, unlike the religious, I deem morality to have been derived an evolutionary development. But it is a collective good, which means that it works only if adopted by all parties. It’s enough that one party has not reached the same evolutionary stage or it is subject to periods of safety that you describe, to defeat morality as a useful survival/progress mechanism.

            And yes, anybody can be subject to delusions.

  4. mark says:

    If Bin Laden is not an enemy combatant, why does that designation not apply? Whatever else he is, he’s our demonstrated and sworn enemy by virtue of ordering and aiding in the killing of our citizens—what’s the matter even with killing him in his bed if we could have?
    Mark

    • oao says:

      Not to mention the care taken to bury him islamically. Why a perverter of Islam — according to Alibama — needs an islamic burial escapes me.

      Methink the West has lost the ability to distinguish between morality and survival and that has only one logical conclusion, indicators of which are already all over the place.

      • mark says:

        You make a good point. This man of utter iniquity deserved the LEAST ritual respect permitted by the conventions of war to be given to a dead enemy. There’s no need to gild the lily. He was what he was, and we despise him for this. Don’t pretend that we are demonstrating our respect for Islam by burying this unctious, self righteous, cowardly, initiator of the murder of civilians with Islam’s available sanctimonies.

        • oao says:

          The idiots in the West just can’t accept there is nothing they can do to make islamists their friends. The more they try to appease them with this kind of gestures, the more contempt they invite.

          • mark says:

            As a jazz sax player…
            Hey, lay off!!!! Don’t compare us with our sadly tone deaf commander in chief. In foreign policy he doesn’t even hear the changes!

      • Cynic says:

        Why a perverter of Islam — according to Alibama — needs an islamic burial escapes me.

        Because the name is incapable of thinking logically.
        He is a contradiction in terms!

        • oao says:

          Well, as you know I am the insistent proponent of the loss of knowledge and ability to reason in the West, so you don’t have to tell me about logic.

          • Cynic says:

            oao,

            But he is supposed to be the brilliant professor of constitutional law, and all that jazz, so we don’t consider the current standard of education in his case.
            If he reads from a teleprompter he does not have the intellect to analyse and criticize what he is reading and ad lib.
            Hell, many a jazz player could give him a run for his money from the intelligence point of view in their capacity to improvise.

    • oao says:

      Mark,

      This is apropos:

      In Re: The Matter of Bin Laden’s Remains
      http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2011/05/028981.php

    • oao says:

      Nothing, of course, unless you suffer from political correctness, or cowardice from the response.

  5. Connie says:

    As you say, many strong words would have been said if Israelis had removed the unspeakable Osama. But in fact, we now hear exactly such rubbish from the usual suspects, but against AMERICA.
    Mind you, try living out here in SE Asia. The sharia nazis are in full cry and even leaders regarded as staunch allies are silent, when they should be applauding.
    Have a look at

    ttp://rossrightangle.wordpress.com /2011/05/05/islamonazi-assegaf-assails-america-dont-overlook-his-blood-thirsty-record/

    to get a taste of what is afoot.

    • oao says:

      Connie,

      As you say, many strong words would have been said if Israelis had removed the unspeakable Osama. But in fact, we now hear exactly such rubbish from the usual suspects, but against AMERICA.

      It’s worse than that. Even now, after the OBL kill, the West, including the US, will continue to beat on Israel for killing Pal murderers. It’s only they who are permitted to kill anybody they deem dangerous to them, but not that “shitty little country” of jews.

      The concept of disproportional response and unnecessary killing of civilians was invented and exists only for Israel.

  6. oao says:

    But he is supposed to be the brilliant professor of constitutional law, and all that jazz, so we don’t consider the current standard of education in his case.

    That was the propaganda. But if you check out the real facts about his career, including education, you’ll find out that they do not support at all such claims, quite the contrary.

    Obama is the first president elected by affirmative action and we know what the mechanism of that is with respect to capabilities.

    • Ben says:

      Maybe you are correct, oao. On the other hand, more than a handful of high-powered thinkers stood up for this guy, and not all of them for political reasons. Either way, it doesn’t matter.
      More than the President’s academic pedigree, we need to find a Republican (or someone else) who can beat this guy in the next election. Otherwise, we’re screwed.

      • oao says:

        Do you mean to say that affirmative action has not had “high-powered thinkers stood up for it”? That’s not the case.

        Unfortunately, that’s exactly what is missing: a serious Republican candidate. One of the many dimension of US decline is the deterioration of the political and economic systems, where elites are incompetent and corrupt. Both parties suffer from it.

        This has developed over a long history and it accelerates the decline.

  7. oao says:

    Mind you, try living out here in SE Asia. The sharia nazis are in full cry and even leaders regarded as staunch allies are silent, when they should be applauding.

    Yeah, well, either the peoples of SEA will have the smarts and the guts to get rid of those nazis, or they’ll live under them. The rest is conversation.

  8. rl wrote:

    Now take this exercise one step further: Imagine the outrage of Americans if any major American institution (e.g., the Supreme Court, or some group in Congress) called for these kinds of investigations, or some newspaper that took this position. Imagine the cry of outrage at such crazy self-inflicted inhibitions. The Nation is not a fringe journal by accident. In Israel, this is all mainstream discourse directed against the country itself.

    Well, yes, of course.

    The Jewish people are the inventors of liberalism – the beneficial foundational principals of what is now called Western civilization.

    And, involved with that, the Jewish people are, unfortunately, the original and unsurpassed experiencers of the unbeneficial detrimental egocentricity-based-immoral-appeasement-of-evil-attackers-of-one’s-own-people mentality.

    The experiences of the Jewish people throughout the past several thousand years reflect this unbeneficial detrimental unmindful mentality and the unskillful self-harming (harmful-to-Jewish-people) actions performed by Jewish people while experiencing this unbeneficial detrimental unmindful mentality.

    Hopefully Jewish people will start to be mindful and will, as a result, start to perform what’s skillful, and will, therein, protect themselves from harm, and, as a result of doing that, also protect the whole world from harm.

    Jewish people (and in particular, prominent Israelis, and in particular, the leaders of the government of Israel) need to become conscious of what is, in fact, the case, and must then mindfully, clearly, firmly, tell what is, in fact, the case.

    The way to protect Israel and the whole world is, truly, as simple as that.

    In the following article, I have written a brief summary of the history of the situation that Israel is in.

    If the Prime Minister of Israel were to speak, verbatim, to the television news media of Western countries, what I wrote in the following article, he would completely change the world for the better.

    It truly is as simple as that.

    The facts that I wrote in the following are almost completely unknown in Western societies, and if the facts that I wrote in the following were known, they would completely change the views that most people have about Israel. If the facts that I wrote in the following were known, they would completely dispel the belief in the untrue narrative that is causing the West to be attacking Israel and to be appeasing the Islamic supremacist political movement.

    Jewish people (that is, Jewish people who are not completely deranged by Stockholm Syndrome, and who, therein, have not completely joined the racist attack against Israel) need to realize that. Most importantly, the leaders of the government of Israel need to realize that. The world runs by consensus. Consensus is determined by views about what the case. Views about what is the case are determined by communication.

    Telling the truth dispels belief in lies.

    To protect oneself and others from harm, and to not cause harm to oneself and others, takes effort. It takes mindfulness, discernment, and effort. It takes the effort of telling the truth.

    Israel – A Brief Summary of the History of the Situation
    http://danielbielak.blogspot.com/2011/03/israel-brief-summary-of-history-of_17.html

  9. SE says:

    http://www.jidaily.com/nCf

    Sol Stern
    An American in the Paris of the Middle East
    Michael Totten’s important, prescient reporting from Lebanon
    6 May 2011
    The Road to Fatima Gate: The Beirut Spring, the Rise of Hezbollah, and the Iranian War Against Israel, by Michael J. Totten (Encounter, 360 pp)

    • oao says:

      I never understood how Totten ever became such a “must read”.

      Both his style and content is more like fiction than analysis (which he probably likes to do) and I never heard anything impressive from him.

  10. An excellent video

    (…which articulates and exposes and refutes the obscene perverse racist double-standard which is applied to the granting of rights to Jewish people and to the granting of rights to all other people, which is an obscene perverse racist double-standard which is unmindfully taken for granted by, and accepted by, and therein, codified by, and enabled by, and made existant by, Jewish people.)

    “Arabs invaded Jewish Palestine; Arabs reneged on deal to get own states by accepting Israel”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXkK8S5UFKA

  11. Two Excellent Articles

    Guardian delusions over the Palestinians can’t change the hard facts, by Robin Shepherd
    The tragedy of the Palestinian people is a tragedy of their own making. Guardian columnists need to learn the basic facts.
    http://www.thecommentator.com/article/154/guardian_delusions_over_the_palestinians_can_t_change_the_hard_facts

    Britain must end anti-Semitic bigotry over Israel: Open letter to the Prime Minister, by Melanie Phillips
    David Cameron says Britain is Israel’s friend. A prominent British writer asks how endorsing Palestinian racism is the mark of a friend.
    http://www.thecommentator.com/article/139/britain_must_end_anti_semitic_bigotry_over_israel_open_letter_to_the_prime_minister_by_melanie_phillips

  12. Alexander4 says:

    Need cheap generic ABANA?…

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>